Croolingans and turf war.

[greg1394]

Having not been playing long I have booked my first tourney and am getting ready to get my botty kicked !

Thanks to every one on the society of Scottish malifools face book group for your help and putting up with my daft questions !

Now ..my querie ..

Crooligans on there card say they can be set up 12" away from any objective of a strategy or scheme and cant be targeted till they do something other that pass.

In shared turf war you can get points for being in your opponnents deployment zone, and there half of the table.

So can crooligans only start 12" away from the table center or any where they like ?

IS your opponents deployment zone and table half considered an objective ?

[Fetid Strumpet]

If you can get VP for the crooligans being there you can't set up within 12" of it. So if a goal is to get your models on the opposing half of the table, for example, the Crolligans could not deploy within 12" of the opponent's half of the table.

[greg1394]

If you can get VP for the crooligans being there you can't set up within 12" of it. So if a goal is to get your models on the opposing half of the table, for example, the Crolligans could not deploy within 12" of the opponent's half of the table.

If thats right then cooligans that opt to use there "from the shadows" ability can start in....your deployment zone 6" on!

AWESOME !!!!

More reasons not to take the poor little Blighters !

[Cornelious1424]

They are very lackluster in most situations, unfortunately. You'll find your self reaching for Night Terrors, which are cheaper and do the whole objective grabbing thing a whole lot better, any chance you can.

[Headcase2]

If you can get VP for the crooligans being there you can't set up within 12" of it. So if a goal is to get your models on the opposing half of the table, for example, the Crolligans could not deploy within 12" of the opponent's half of the table.

I don't think that's true. Targets would be things like Evidence counters, Treasure counters, Dynamite counters, Stake a Claim/Claim Jump objectives, Sabotage targets,... Still very limiting, but the ability can sometimes come in useful.

[morpsele]

If you can get VP for the crooligans being there you can't set up within 12" of it. So if a goal is to get your models on the opposing half of the table, for example, the Crolligans could not deploy within 12" of the opponent's half of the table.

This answer was a little weird for me. If you have Recoinneter you can't use you crooligans ability cause it's an objectif?? I think that would make them useless alot since in my leage we play only core encounter.

[Pierowmaniac]

I was playing Shared 'Destroy the Evidence' a couple of weeks back and similar query came up.

Could I deploy my Crooligans within 12" of my opponents evidence counters.

We both read it that I could not and subsequently had to forgo using the ability and deploy normally (because there was no place on the board that was more than 12" away from an evidence marker).

I've never really considered an objective being a 'zone' before, but since seeing this thread I can see how a 'zone' is an objective.

Um I will have to think a lot more carefully in future, when deploying the Crooligans.

[greg1394]

can we get an official ruling on whether "zones" count as objectives ?

[Lucidicide]

"From the Shadows: This model may be deployed after all other models, in or behind any terrain more than 12" away from an enemy or the objective of any Strategy or announced Scheme."

First off, this is sort of a silly rule. You deploy BEFORE announcing schemes. Therefore there will never be an announced Scheme that blocks Crooligans deployment. Unless you retroactively have to change their deployment? It doesn't make sense.

Second off, "zones" pretty much can't count as objectives. As has been stated, this would make things like Reconnoiter silly. Granted, you don't need to use those models and/or those abilities, but I think the goal is not that.

My recommendation is to read the rule like this (changes in italics):

"From the Shadows: This model may be deployed after all other models and after Schemes are announced, in or behind any terrain more than 12" away:

1. from an enemy,

2. or the target of any Strategy or announced Scheme,

3. or from any Counters or Markers placed because of a Strategy or announced Scheme."

The word target helps because parts of the table aren't targets -- only things like Sabotoge have targets, and then it adds in Counters or Markers.

I do think the above wording is the intent AND it makes sense.

[greg1394]

"From the Shadows: This model may be deployed after all other models, in or behind any terrain more than 12" away from an enemy or the objective of any Strategy or announced Scheme."

First off, this is sort of a silly rule. You deploy BEFORE announcing schemes. Therefore there will never be an announced Scheme that blocks Crooligans deployment. Unless you retroactively have to change their deployment? It doesn't make sense.

Second off, "zones" pretty much can't count as objectives. As has been stated, this would make things like Reconnoiter silly. Granted, you don't need to use those models and/or those abilities, but I think the goal is not that.

My recommendation is to read the rule like this (changes in italics):

"From the Shadows: This model may be deployed after all other models and after Schemes are announced, in or behind any terrain more than 12" away:

1. from an enemy,

2. or the target of any Strategy or announced Scheme,

3. or from any Counters or Markers placed because of a Strategy or announced Scheme."

The word target helps because parts of the table aren't targets -- only things like Sabotoge have targets, and then it adds in Counters or Markers.

I do think the above wording is the intent AND it makes sense.

So thats the official word ?

So in shared claim jump at 30 stones I can take 7 crooligans and (as long as I follow the 3 steps above) sit them in my opponents deployment zone till turn 6 for full point ?

Am i missing some thing ?

[Fetid Strumpet]

The fact that it makes them silly doesn't change the fact of how the rule is written. I agree the scheme portion of it was badly written but the intent I think was spot on. Let's not forget the Crooligans were not the first model to have this rule. The December Acolyte was, followed by the Freikorps Trapper, Snipers and infiltrators, I think it was definitely the intent to keep them away from anything that just gave out VP and allowed them to start ensconced in a great firing position as well.

RM clarification would be nice, as currently RAW you cannot use the rule in situations like Reconnoiter.

[greg1394]

I can only see ways to interpret this rule as it is written .

1.They start in your deployment zone

2.They start where they want on the board ( restrictions appying)

[Lucidicide]

The fact that it makes them silly doesn't change the fact of how the rule is written. I agree the scheme portion of it was badly written but the intent I think was spot on. Let's not forget the Crooligans were not the first model to have this rule. The December Acolyte was, followed by the Freikorps Trapper, Snipers and infiltrators, I think it was definitely the intent to keep them away from anything that just gave out VP and allowed them to start ensconced in a great firing position as well.

RM clarification would be nice, as currently RAW you cannot use the rule in situations like Reconnoiter.

I agree on the intent as being avoiding anything that just gives out VP, and yet things like Reconnoiter don't just give out VP.

Either way, definitely needs a clarification.

---------- Post added at 11:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:22 AM ----------

So I looked at it further. I think I would say to go with the below:

From the Shadows: This model may be deployed after all other models and after Schemes are announced, in or behind any terrain more than 12" away:

1. from an enemy, or

2. from any Interact targets of any Strategy or announced Scheme, or

3. from any Counters or Markers placed because of a Strategy or announced Scheme, or

4. from any of your own unannounced Schemes.

That may end up being more limiting than it would be otherwise, but it's very unlikely to ever get "abuse" called on it and clarifies the rule (even if it's not what the rule currently actually says).

[LordZombie]

I have always played it as being counters also, not zones. Of coarse, I am the only one in my group that uses crooligans. I don't think it matters too much anyways. On a standard 3' X 3' table and useing standard deployment, there is no way you could pull that off unless your opponent lets you. He starts 6" from the edge and put his models just spaced enough that you can't be closer than 12" and now you are starting 18" from his table edge which is your table half anyways. This also includes the fact that you take so many crooligans that you out number your opponent otherwise they can't claim the table quarter. It could be worded better, but there is not a lot you could do with it and crooligans anyways.

[greg1394]

I have always played it as being counters also, not zones. Of coarse, I am the only one in my group that uses crooligans. I don't think it matters too much anyways. On a standard 3' X 3' table and useing standard deployment, there is no way you could pull that off unless your opponent lets you. He starts 6" from the edge and put his models just spaced enough that you can't be closer than 12" and now you are starting 18" from his table edge which is your table half anyways. This also includes the fact that you take so many crooligans that you out number your opponent otherwise they can't claim the table quarter. It could be worded better, but there is not a lot you could do with it and crooligans anyways.

I understand your point but not every one knows what every single model dose and I for one have played people who always start with there models in a very small area.

And if you did find your self in that position taking break through as a strategy would make get you 2 additional VPs.