Another Cherub CSNTU question

[SeigeBrisbane]

Can a cherub target its-self with this action?

[Doctor Lucky]

Its a range one ability, so I assume no it cannot target itself.

But I don't see the application even if it could.

[ThePandaDirector]

No, but it could target another Cherub

[Tauwolf]

But I don't see the application even if it could.

Mostly this. Why would you want to?

[SeigeBrisbane]

I guess I dont understand the wording.

I assumed he could use it to force a puppet to do ANY action you had control over, so you could make a puppet throw use Ice Blaster, or Tazed, to cause a rip or paralyze....isnt this what it does?

And if so I just assumed he could also use it on him self oppose to another puppet...

So Baby Kade can't use Knife Weilding Baby on himself to move a space?

Or

The whitchling doctor can't heal himself with trust me im a doctor? !! o_O

[Hugor]

He can use it on himself, it is just almost pointless for him to do so.

The only reasoning would be to possibly make him move one space through a run action after having used a :fast action...

Either way, the rule for targeting (pg 18) states "Range (Rg) #: The maximum distance (in Spaces_ that the Target of the Action may be from the Puppet performing the Action. A Puppet is always in Range of itself unless the Action states the Puppet cannot Target itself.

So, Baby Kade can use Knife Weilding Baby on himself to move the space, and the Whitchling Stalker can heal himself, etc...

Hope this helps

[Justin]

Either way, the rule for targeting (pg 18) states "Range (Rg) #: The maximum distance (in Spaces_ that the Target of the Action may be from the Puppet performing the Action. A Puppet is always in Range of itself unless the Action states the Puppet cannot Target itself.

So, Baby Kade can use Knife Weilding Baby on himself to move the space, and the Whitchling Stalker can heal himself, etc...

Hope this helps

Yup. This.

[SeigeBrisbane]

He can use it on himself, it is just almost pointless for him to do so.

The only reasoning would be to possibly make him move one space through a run action after having used a :fast action...

Either way, the rule for targeting (pg 18) states "Range (Rg) #: The maximum distance (in Spaces_ that the Target of the Action may be from the Puppet performing the Action. A Puppet is always in Range of itself unless the Action states the Puppet cannot Target itself.

So, Baby Kade can use Knife Weilding Baby on himself to move the space, and the Whitchling Stalker can heal himself, etc...

Hope this helps

Still not understanding at all. You say its possible but then proceed to say that it has almost no uses aside from "The only reasoning would be to possibly make him move one space through a run action after having used a :fast action..."

This just confuses me, because if it is true, there are dozens of applications, including the two I stated in my above post, causing a rip with the ice golems ability, as well as paralyzing with razorspine rattler, or cover up from the moleman...

My understanding from the wording is he forces 1 puppet to do ANY action you currently own/control. So if my ice golem is sitting at the back of the board I can use my cherub to CSNTU to use the ice golems action and hit soemthing close to the cherub...likewise I could use CSNTU on himself to use the molemans action to only be targeted by melee.

Yes? No?

Not to sure why everyone is contradicting eachother

[karn987]

Still not understanding at all. You say its possible but then proceed to say that it has almost no uses aside from "The only reasoning would be to possibly make him move one space through a run action after having used a :fast action..."

This just confuses me, because if it is true, there are dozens of applications, including the two I stated in my above post, causing a rip with the ice golems ability, as well as paralyzing with razorspine rattler, or cover up from the moleman...

My understanding from the wording is he forces 1 puppet to do ANY action you currently own/control. So if my ice golem is sitting at the back of the board I can use my cherub to CSNTU to use the ice golems action and hit soemthing close to the cherub...likewise I could use CSNTU on himself to use the molemans action to only be targeted by melee.

Yes? No?

Not to sure why everyone is contradicting eachother

It's confusion on how your saying it

You keep stating "use CSNTU on himself ..." ie, the Cherub uses that action on himself to preform an action (which is basically pointless)... not the Cherub uses CSNTU to make the effected Puppet target it's self with an action/attack etc.

To clear it up though! Yes, the Cherub can use CSNTU to force the targeted Puppet to use an action on it's self as long as the action performed by the CSNTU effected Puppet could legally target it's self

So CSNTU could be used to make your opponents Ice Golem Ice Blaster it's self, or an effect Razorspine Rattler Taze it's self etc.

That answer the question?

Edited April 6, 2012 by karn987

[SeigeBrisbane]

I was reading the part " controlled by you " and assumed it meant any action controlled by you, not you controlled the action selected lol geeze On a side note this may of cleared up some other things as well.

Taking this into consideration

Range (Rg) #: The maximum distance (in Spaces_ that the Target of the Action may be from the Puppet performing the Action. A Puppet is always in Range of itself unless the Action states the Puppet cannot Target itself.

This like

Wing-Fu (10): Rg: 1, Effect: Place all Puppets in Range in a space Adjacent to their current location if able. Any Puppet placed Adjacent to an Impassible Token suffers one Rip.

would also move the nephilium who performed the action as well?

[karn987]

I was reading the part " controlled by you " and assumed it meant any action controlled by you, not you controlled the action selected lol geeze On a side note this may of cleared up some other things as well.

Taking this into consideration

Range (Rg) #: The maximum distance (in Spaces_ that the Target of the Action may be from the Puppet performing the Action. A Puppet is always in Range of itself unless the Action states the Puppet cannot Target itself.

This like

Wing-Fu (10): Rg: 1, Effect: Place all Puppets in Range in a space Adjacent to their current location if able. Any Puppet placed Adjacent to an Impassible Token suffers one Rip.

would also move the nephilium who performed the action as well?

It's very easy to over-think rules I do it all the time.

As to your second question, no it's not supposed to effect him. Intention is that it won't.

[SeigeBrisbane]

dang nabit. just when I thought things were becoming clear What makes the nephilim so special it ignores rules without stating so? What makes it ignore " A Puppet is always in Range of itself unless the Action states the Puppet cannot Target itself. "

[karn987]

dang nabit. just when I thought things were becoming clear What makes the nephilim so special it ignores rules without stating so? What makes it ignore " A Puppet is always in Range of itself unless the Action states the Puppet cannot Target itself. "

Because that was the intention and a slight slip in the wording and careful attention by a intelligent player has found a hole we may have missed

I'm going to say hold off on this one. I'm going to bring this up on the back end and have it looked at just encase.

But if you need a way to play it by... for now go with: I can't effect it's self with Wing-Fu.

Edited April 6, 2012 by karn987

[SeigeBrisbane]

O_O dont tell me that, Ill go looking everywhere now for different instances where it might be foobar

What do you think the intent here is?

Magnetic Personality (): Rg: 3, Effect: Target a Metal Puppet. Place Rusty Alyce in an unoccupied space adjacent to the target.

If a puppet is always in range of itsself, Alice could target herself with this and use it to move 1 space? Of coarse this would only matter if you wanted to do a free action on some equipment otherwise she could run to get the extra space. Although if she had multi-tasker from the coils equipment she could use it to move 3 and still shoot, or get in some sneaky Disassembles.

[karn987]

O_O dont tell me that, Ill go looking everywhere now for different instances where it might be foobar

What do you think the intent here is?

Magnetic Personality (): Rg: 3, Effect: Target a Metal Puppet. Place Rusty Alyce in an unoccupied space adjacent to the target.

If a puppet is always in range of itsself, Alice could target herself with this and use it to move 1 space? Of coarse this would only matter if you wanted to do a free action on some equipment otherwise she could run to get the extra space. Although if she had multi-tasker from the coils equipment she could use it to move 3 and still shoot, or get in some sneaky Disassembles.

I would say play it by RAW for the time being. We are going to discuss this and should have more on all this soon enough.

Don't drive yourself mad, but feel free to point out more if you wish. We will look into them.

[Hugor]

@ SeigieBrisbane, sorry I was thinking you meant could the cherub us csnty on himself, which is mostly pointless. Using it on someone else to perform an action on themselves or on another puppet (enemy or friendly) is an amazing Action and can be used for all sorts of amazing things.

As for Rusty Alyce, I feel like it would work, and like you mention it would be really useful to use of she has coils on her and needed to move the extra space.

[Tauwolf]

Whoa. Wing-Fu can now rip the Neph as well as adjacent models. Muahahahaaaaa.

[SeigeBrisbane]

Whoa. Wing-Fu can now rip the Neph as well as adjacent models. Muahahahaaaaa.

Yeah it feels like it needs to be FAQ'd or possibly even errata'd it doesn't seem intended but the way the rule is written you almost have no choice unless you house rule it, because its not a may ability.

Its also causing things like him moving 4 spaces per activation with follow through.

Follow Through: Once per Animation, after causing a rip to an Enemy Puppet, this Puppet may make one move.

[Tauwolf]

It may not be intentional but I don't think it's a huge deal. He's already a high maintenance puppet that is a bit under-utilized. I don't mind him getting a small boost.

[SeigeBrisbane]

This sounds silly but if a cherub forces a puppet to do an action do you still have to pay the cost of that action? So you have to pay for both? That could really wreck any card advantage you had lol or really limit the actions youd want to pump out from t he cherub

[karn987]

This sounds silly but if a cherub forces a puppet to do an action do you still have to pay the cost of that action? So you have to pay for both? That could really wreck any card advantage you had lol or really limit the actions youd want to pump out from t he cherub

Yup, you gotta pay the cost for it It can get expensive, that is sorta the balancing factor to it.