Combat/Spells To Cheat or To Burn Soulstone?

[dunce002917]

Last Saturday I was in a situation where Sonnia (I) wanted to cast the Flame Barrier/Wall or Violation of Magic. As you know it will cost Sonnia cc: 14 tome/13 tome/17 ram and tome respectively. Sonnia's CA and CB already satisfies the ram requirement but I need a tome to be successful.

Ex: Flame Burst, I flipped a 7 ram. My total is 15 ram and I need to cheat or burn a soulstone for my spell to work.

My opponent's defense flip total is 16. I know have an option to cheat.

My control cards have tomes but if I cheat with them, I will lose the combat total. I have a 10 ram but I still need a tome to get the spell.

He said I can cheat and replace my initial flip with a 2 tome and then use a soul stone to play my 10 ram bringing my total to 17 ram/tome.

Is this correct?

I was under the impression that I can only cheat OR use soul stone. If ever I can use both, I have to use a soul stone first then I can cheat to replace 1 card.

Please clarify. If my friend is correct, this will make casting spells a whole lot easier.

[nilus]

You have a few things wrong so let me take this slow

You may both cheat and play a soul stone on a flip.

You must cheat first

Cheating is when you replace the flipped card with a card from your hand

You may then us a soul stone

Using a soul stone in this way allows you to flip a card from your deck and add it to your total(not from your hand)

[dunce002917]

You have a few things wrong so let me take this slow

You may both cheat and play a soul stone on a flip.

You must cheat first

Cheating is when you replace the flipped card with a card from your hand

You may then us a soul stone

Using a soul stone in this way allows you to flip a card from your deck and add it to your total(not from your hand)

Oic.. so in my scenario, I'll cheat with my 2 tome and then burn a soul stone and hope to get an 8 and higher to get a 17+ total.

Ok got it. Thanks nilus! I loved your Cheated Fates radio interview...

[nilus]

Oic.. so in my scenario, I'll cheat with my 2 tome and then burn a soul stone and hope to get an 8 and higher to get a 17+ total.

Ok got it. Thanks nilus! I loved your Cheated Fates radio interview...

Right exactly. Or you cheat with your 10 of Rams and then stone it and hope for a Tome.

And Thanks, I figured between Gamers Lounge, Aethervox and Cheated Fates Radio everyone is just about tired of hearing my voice.

[dunce002917]

LOL

well, I'm a noob to Malifaux... so any insight and tips I'll absorb like a sponge.. its nice to play a game where my buddies and I are practically at the same level.

I only started playing tabletop minis less than 3 years... so for Infinity and Warmachine/Hordes I'm at a disadvantage...

[Alex]

One other important bit is that if you are casting a spell, you must flip and do any cheating/soulstoning to determine your final total before your opponent does any flipping at all. This is because in Malifaux, Spells work differently than non-spell attacks.

Regular attacks (for example a Strike with a melee or ranged weapon) is an Opposed Duel; two models' controllers flipping simultaneously and comparing totals, and then cheating/stoning as applicable.

Spells require a Simple Duel (i.e. one player flipping against a target number/suit requirement) to cast. If you wish to cheat (replace flipped card w a card from your hand) and/or burn a soulstone to add an additional card (flipped from top of deck) to your total, you may do so but the spell is not considered cast until you have either cheated or declined to do so and (if model is a master/henchman or can otherwise use soulstones) either burned a stone or declined to do so.

You can tell if a Spell is an Attack by if it lists a stat with which it can be resisted. If that is the case, casting the spell is exactly the same, except that because it is an Attack, a model cannot target itself. (You can still use an Attack on a friendly model if you want, just not on the model doing the Attack.) After the Casting Total is set (Ca+flipped or cheated card, possibly +extra flipped card from Soulstone) and it is determined that the Spell is successfully cast (met or exceeded the casting cost and suit requirements) it is now the controller of the target model who must make a Simple Duel, trying to beat the target number which is equal to the Casting Total. That player does a normal duel using the stat on the target model matching the stat the spell lists as its resist stat, usually Df or Wp, and trying to beat that target number which again was locked in when the spell was cast. The defender may cheat and/or Soulstone that duel as with any Simple Duel. If defender doesn't beat that locked-in Casting Total, the spell does what it does.

It takes a little while to internalize the idea that spell attacks work differently from other attacks. Took me quite some time to really get what that meant myself. It's spelled out in two places in the rulebook. First, pp 26-29, Duels. Had to read, re-read, internalize. Then pp 50-54, Magic. Takes concepts learned in Duels and applies to Spells and Spell Attacks. Grokking that is an important step to understanding more complex interactions down the road, such as why Pandora doesn't "win" a Wp duel when another model loses a Wp resist duel against one of her Spells. (It's not an Opposed Duel -- thanks, Lucidicide!) Like I alluded to earlier, I have been playing for eight months or so and am still learning the ins and outs!

Most important thing though: keep playing and having fun! Not sure about a rule? Take your best guess, keep playing and look it up later. If two players in our group can't come to an agreement, we let fate decide (flipping for it) and look it up later. Again, keep playing, keep having fun! Welcome to Malifaux!

[dunce002917]

Awesome... yeah, spell casting is a bit tricky in Malifaux... but then again, we're IN Malifaux... so bad thing DO happen... like missing your spell cast and you're opponent alpha strikes your butt giving you paralyze... sad day in Malifaux...