Mister_Q Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) Ok - found it - Companion Clarification. I'd always played it as a chain - one model activates and then the next (which is exactly what it says in the Rules Manual). The clarification post states that the whole group starts their activation at the very beginning and then spends their APs one after the other. In which case: yes, Kirai would have to use Spirit Sacrifice at the start of the companion chain - which would mean you could use Perdita, Abuela and/or a totem to obey Papa nice and close before he gets his turn and explodes. Edited March 21, 2012 by Mister_Q Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgraz Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 hmmmmm. Could Perdita then use Spellbreaker to make Kirai lose Spirit Sacrifice? and that godawful ability that allows seishin to never die? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister_Q Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 hmmmmm. Could Perdita then use Spellbreaker to make Kirai lose Spirit Sacrifice? Oooh - I hadn't thought of that. I like it! Yeah, I think she could. Spirit Sacrifice puts the "can't be hurt by blasts, etc." effect on some of Kirai's models, so Spellbreaker should be able to remove it. There's no resist for Spellbreaker so it doesn't even count as an attack. Nice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgraz Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Oh yeah. Perdita.....still competitive. I've used Spellbreaker plenty of times on Bolster Undead, so I figured why not here? That monstrous 18" range and it ends all effects, not just one like Shrug Off and Dispel Magic. It is an oft overlooked spell. "Oh! She was in the Spirit World too? Gee that's too bad." Hehe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nilus Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Oh yeah. Perdita.....still competitive. Year of the Ram baby! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Year of the Ram baby!* *Translation: 3rd (attempted) Year of the Ram. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requirement Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 I seem to remember something about a model in a chain having Poison on it which would kill them and not being able to have another model within the same chain remove the Poison before it killed the model because they were all acting simultaneously. I have been looking for that post for about 2 weeks! The example used was Nino with poison and Abuela trying to heal him in a companion chain. I have gotten in so many fights over companion. This Kirai trick... that will have to be remembered for the future... and everyone says the Guild isn't tricky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vmag Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Yep, that's exactly the one I was referring to. No idea where the post is though, sorry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headcase2 Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 I remember that post too. I believe the end result was that Nino wouldn't take damage until he actually got his AP to start taking actions, so that Abuela could heal him before he would die. And I think this was a reversal from a previous, older ruling. Can't find it either though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mako Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) So, abuela can heal niño as part of the chain, but Kirai has to activate sheath at the start of companion? That seems inconsistent, but I might be misunderstanding some of this! And would that then mean that spirit sheath wears off after the first model finishes, or only after the whole companion chain? I have a friend who's learning with Perdita against my Kirai (I'm learning too really), so any evil tricks he can pick up to play on me will make it much more amusing. And spell breaker could really ruin my day if I let her get as close as I did last time! Edited March 22, 2012 by Mako Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgraz Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 And spell breaker could really ruin my day if I let her get as close as I did last time! She doesn't need to be close. It's technically a 30" threat. Walk twice for 12" and Spellbreaker is 18". Yes, that is all she is doing, but sometimes with a support caster like Nico, that is all she needs to do - she isn't a support caster, the crew doesn't need her to lay the smack down. When playing against Nico, I just hold Perdita until Nico goes then Spellbreak him. Both Nico and Kirai could conceivably out-activate Perdita but they really need to go at some point during the turn to really be effective I think (Nico certainly with Bolster Undead) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nilus Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 I think its been ruled a few different ways the but the latest ruling is Companion activates them all at once, so my thought would be poison goes off and kills Nino before Abuela can heal him. Even if she goes first during the Companion activation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgraz Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 I think its been ruled a few different ways the but the latest ruling is Companion activates them all at once, so my thought would be poison goes off and kills Nino before Abuela can heal him. Even if she goes first during the Companion activation. Concur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requirement Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 I think its been ruled a few different ways the but the latest ruling is Companion activates them all at once, so my thought would be poison goes off and kills Nino before Abuela can heal him. Even if she goes first during the Companion activation. That's the way I remember it playing out. Since "Everyone starts simultaneously but ends at different times" is kind of the breakdown of the companion chain now, Nino dies. Personally I like it this way as it makes more sense with "simultaneously" written in there. Also, by this ruling, I believe the Drill Sergeant (damn hard word to spell) companioned with Hoffman allows his aura to go off as long as he activates first. I don't think it would be of any use if after Hoffman activated the aura got shut down... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mako Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 She doesn't need to be close. It's technically a 30" threat. Walk twice for 12" and Spellbreaker is 18". Yes, that is all she is doing, but sometimes with a support caster like Nico, that is all she needs to do - she isn't a support caster, the crew doesn't need her to lay the smack down. It's more that I ended up in LoS to her rather than the absolute range, if I stay away hopefully it'll be harder to see Kirai to get her with it! So with companion starting everyone's activations all at once, what does that mean for spirit sheath? Is it Once at the start, lasting all through the chain, or just through one models ap using time; or at the start of a specific models actions? I want to make sure I get this right as it could be a game breaker for us when he gets lucky and papa doesn't end up immobile by denial of sanzu(such a cruel habit that). And will give me something to try and deal with, and him a fun new trick to wreck my crew! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vmag Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 I think its been ruled a few different ways the but the latest ruling is Companion activates them all at once, so my thought would be poison goes off and kills Nino before Abuela can heal him. Even if she goes first during the Companion activation. That's how I remember that thread being ruled as well. My take-away was that Abuela can remove the Poison from Nino but he'd still die due to Poison since it all happens at the same time. Essentially she can take the action but it doesn't actually do anything. I may very well be recalling that incorrectly though... If only there were a way to find old threads and/or current rulings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requirement Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 That's how I remember that thread being ruled as well. My take-away was that Abuela can remove the Poison from Nino but he'd still die due to Poison since it all happens at the same time. Essentially she can take the action but it doesn't actually do anything. I may very well be recalling that incorrectly though... If only there were a way to find old threads and/or current rulings http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?20931-Companion-timing Last few posts on that guy. We were correct, Nino dies so Abuela can't help him in a companion situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nilus Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Yeah I know a lot of Guild players fought against this one but personally it works better this way. If things didn't happen at the same dog, we would always end up leaving one Guild Hound behind when they activated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mako Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Everything being simultaneous makes sense to me, as really held all be acting at the same time. That's just too tricky to achieve in the game. I'm still a little puzzled over the interaction of the family companion with spirit sacrifice though (not sheath as I said earlier, didn't have the cards on me and got name wrong.) Is it a case of declaring it and saccing a seishin at the start of the companion since its all one activation really so the sacrifice lasts to the end of it all, or when a particular model starts it's go and it ends when that model stops? I suspect its the second option, but since I rarely get to play I figure clarity from people who've had this situation is wise! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requirement Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 I have never had the situation pop up in a game but from the rules I would expect at the beginning of a companion chain since every model is "activating" simultaneously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister_Q Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 For poison - don't use Companion. Just activate Abuela to heal and leave Nino's activation for later. Is it a case of declaring it and saccing a seishin at the start of the companion since its all one activation really so the sacrifice lasts to the end of it all, or when a particular model starts it's go and it ends when that model stops? I suspect its the second option, but since I rarely get to play I figure clarity from people who've had this situation is wise! Good question. Since the rules change to say all companions start their activation together this gets confusing. Spirit Sac says it's used at the start of a model's activation (so the group's activation in this case) and ends when that model's activation ends. Would this mean when the first model in the group finishes their activation, or does Spirit Sac get a bonus duration and last for the whole group's activations? Or does the Kirai player get to choose which model in the group it will apply to? Also, just remember that if you're playing against someone who hasn't read the forums they'll still be playing the companion activation the way it says in the Rules Manual (one model activates, then the next, etc.), which makes this much simpler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mako Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Cheers for that, for now I'll just go with activating it when I think papa loco is going to blow up in my face! Save all the complicated companion shenanigans for when we've both learned the tricks our crews have... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister_Q Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 She doesn't need to be close. It's technically a 30" threat. Walk twice for 12" and Spellbreaker is 18". She's Fast, and Spellbreaker is (0) action. So Walk 3 times for 18" and Spellbreaker is 18" gives a 36" threat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nilus Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 She's Fast, and Spellbreaker is (0) action. So Walk 3 times for 18" and Spellbreaker is 18" gives a 36" threat. Dammit Mister_Q, if you keep mentioned these things Nix might start figuring out that Perdita doesn't suck so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgraz Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Damn, forgot it was a (0). Of course on a 36" table that extra 6" isn't much of an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.