graeme27uk Posted March 18, 2012 Report Share Posted March 18, 2012 Just looking over the Ortega's as I like shooty crews. They all have Companion (Family)!!! Isn't that a bit too good as they could all activate in one go, so giving an awesome alpha strike capability. If they win the first initiative, isn't it almost game over for the other crew if they are in range? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted March 18, 2012 Report Share Posted March 18, 2012 This is one of the common misconceptions for new players to Malifaux. Firstly Malifaux needs to be played with much more terrain than most miniature wargames. Given the way that cover works in the game, and the fact that gun ranges in the game rarely exceed 10"-12" while the Ortega's Alpha Strike is a strong mechanic, it is not game breaking, and actually retains a good deal of balance. Secondly, it is important to understand that, as Calmdown has said multiple times, Malifaux is a game of positional control. Ranged attacks don't exert much control at all as a gun's range is only soft control. The ranged model doesn't actually prevent anyone from interacting with an objective, or count as being close to an objective, it only provides a deterrent to movement, which while beneficial, is not hard control. Camping a model like the Executioner on top of something is HARD control, not only is he a deterrent to being where he is, even once you are there you need to get rid of him to gain control of the location. Add this to the fact that, with gun ranges being so short, that very often, if you can shoot me, I can charge you, and most models in the game that are great at shooting, are dismal at melee combat. There are a few exceptions, Perdita being a great example, but very often, if you are a threat that I care about, you'll get one shot before I'm on top of you ripping your model apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgraz Posted March 18, 2012 Report Share Posted March 18, 2012 Totally agree with the stinky whore...I mean Fetid Strumpet. Don't forget also, that if you do the Alpha Strike, you'll be done and whatever the enemy has left will get to also do a pseudo-alpha strike just because you have nothing left to activate. I've played Perdita a loooong time (since the start) and I rarely companion more than 2 or 3 models at a time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister_Q Posted March 18, 2012 Report Share Posted March 18, 2012 +1 to these. I'm only just starting out with the Ortegas. I've found that moving the whole family can be handy in turn 1 if you need to get everyone out of sight, and very occasionally later on if you need to make sure something is dead. Other than that it's usually best to only companion two or three. My Ortega crew tends to be outnumbered most of the time, so moving all of them and then letting my opponent have the chance to use their entire crew against me doesn't usually work out well for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nilus Posted March 18, 2012 Report Share Posted March 18, 2012 To add to this. Companion(family) is an ability that will make new players dealing with it cry, but will soon turn into an ability that if missused will lose you the game every time. Another key aspect to Malifaux is the you go, I go mechanic and number of activations. If you all go at once you basically hand your opponent the ability to do it right back at you. Learning when to companion and how to use companion is a key skill for Ortega players. Like Dgaz said you find that in most games you setup small 2 or 3 man kill teams and rarely do a full crew Alpha strike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benw Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 I play Perdita almost solely at the moment and agree with what has been said so far. If you keep Alpha Striking the whole family each turn you will be out activated and out played. Very rarely will I activate more than 2 or 3 family members at a time. It is no fun sitting there and letting the opponent move their entire crew without any response from the family as they all went at the start of the turn. Even on turn 1 I don't just move in a bunch as I want my opponent to keep guessing as to what I will do. Use it wisely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the junkie Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 Companion 2-3 models late in the activation and targets enemy models that have yet to activate can help mitigate some of the out activation assuming that you kill whatever you were shooting at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dezzo Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 i never use Ortega's companion ability. austringer's Deliver Orders ability however, is a different story altogether. =P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Clausewitz Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 i never use Ortega's companion ability. austringer's Deliver Orders ability however, is a different story altogether. =P +1 Nothing like 7 austringer attacks in a row with drill Sgt. Shooting range up. Really though, I never play Ortega lists. My Perdita lists usually only have 1-2 other Ortegas and they are generally more than 6" away from each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benw Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 Really though, I never play Ortega lists. My Perdita lists usually only have 1-2 other Ortegas and they are generally more than 6" away from each other. I have found this as well. With Austringers and really fun 4ss minions out there, most of the Ortegas get left behind given their cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headcase2 Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 i never use Ortega's companion ability. austringer's Deliver Orders ability however, is a different story altogether. =P Sounds like you're gimping yourself out of habit. If used correctly the companion chain activation is still a very powerful ability that can on occasion win you the game. And while Austringers are good to have, they can never match the raw damage output of an Ortega. Anyway, the Ortegas are all powerful specialist models, with associated soulstone costs, so few players ever play the whole gang (unless it's a fluff thing). Santiago and Nino appear in many non-Perdita guild lists but even if together they won't often companion due to board positions. One of the more efficient chains is when you're playing 'Dita, Loco and a Nephilim: Nephilim obeys Papa Loco to charge toward the enemy line, Perdita then does the same, and finally Papa Loco explodes twice for an incredible heap of damage. Just be very careful when playing against a crew that can Obey as well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgraz Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 I just think the Papa Bomb is sad now that the look alike wannabe gremlins do this trick 3 times as good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nilus Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 I don't think the Papa bomb has been all that great since book 2 came out. Guild crews have to few models to be throwing them away on suicide runs. If you are going to bomb them with something you might as well add in Grandma and companion bomb a tougher model who doesn't just go across to die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgraz Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 There are a bunch of things that were fun but aren't effective since book 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headcase2 Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 I find Papa Bomb still works very well against some crews. Mostly rezzers, who often have a lot of models more or less bunched up with a lot of wounds but low defense. And if Kirai doesn't sac a Seishin... oh boy... :ghost: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgraz Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 And if Kirai doesn't sac a Seishin... oh boy... :ghost: Why wouldn't she? Since she can do it out of turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister_Q Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Why wouldn't she? Since she can do it out of turn. The Spirit Sacrifice ability that lets her ignore blasts, etc. can be done at the start of any model's activation - so she could do it at the start of Papa's activation if it looked like that was what he was planning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headcase2 Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 She has to do it when you start your companion chain. Papa's threat range is considerable, so you can have him hang back if she sacrifices a seishin. If she thinks she's safe though and doesn't, she's all of a sudden out of seishin and probably down a lot of wounds too. Also, take ya with me is magical damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister_Q Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 She has to do it when you start your companion chain "Start of any model's activation" ... why start of companion chain? Also, take ya with me is magical damage. Yes it is - very handy with those pesky spirits. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96p Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 I thougt Papa can't use his bomb twice because he'd die, which is forbidden by marshalls law... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nilus Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Nope, because its a duel that does Dmg not Wds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headcase2 Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 "Start of any model's activation" ... why start of companion chain? Hmmm... not sure anymore, maybe I'm thinking of the old(er) rules here. I think the entire chain counts as activating as soon as you declare them and determine they are valid companion choices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozz Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 If my understanding from the bury errata is correct from how it mentions companion, declaring a companion chain, makes every model in the chain start their activation, you then just chose which models go in which order:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nilus Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 If my understanding from the bury errata is correct from how it mentions companion, declaring a companion chain, makes every model in the chain start their activation, you then just chose which models go in which order:) Basically, thats how it was ruled a few months back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vmag Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) I seem to remember something about a model in a chain having Poison on it which would kill them and not being able to have another model within the same chain remove the Poison before it killed the model because they were all acting simultaneously. But why I'm on this thread... anyone have much experience with the Latigos? Likes/dislikes? Edited March 21, 2012 by Vmag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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