Yew Arcane Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 Ok, ok, so I am planning to pick a neverborn crew out. And I would like to know which ones you would suggest. I am not wanting to pick up a box-set, unless you convince me its best. what I have: Masters: The viktorias Seamus Rasputina Henchmen: Von Schill Molly Kaeris Special forces: friekorps librarian Gunsmith x2 Soulstone miner Minions: Desperate mercenary Ronin x3 Johan Misaki Sue Taelor Bishop rotten belle x3 Madame sybelle Bete noire Fire gamin x3 Ice gamin x6 December acolyte Ice golem Totems: Copycat killer Avatars: Seamus Rasputina I plan on getting the horrors amd a few more mercs, but I should go in the neverborn. So tell me the pros amd cons of your favorite neverborn masters, and try to convince me to pick them up with a competitive (or at least more competitive list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_Ruckuss Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 (edited) Ok- lots to cover, not much time s going to be brief please can others fill in anything I miss out! the dreamer/LCB is arguably the best master in the game right now. When you know what you a re doing with him he is incredibly difficult to play against. He is able to bury and unbury himself and his crew and is a bit og a combat monster. I love his fluff and model but personally will not play tje crew myself until I feel he is more balanced (as most people I play groan when you mention his name!) Pandora is a master I used to use and have alot of fun with. Using willpower shennaigans she slowly but surely wears down her opponents, and can take on crews pretty much by herself. She works particularly well with the book 2 minions, and her new alternate sculpt is lovely. Lilith is a combat beast who has an amazing defence and ignores many terrain penalties. She was one of the most feared masters in book one. She works particularly well with nephilim, which she can "grow" (think digivolve) using blood. Pretty straight forward master, heaps of fun! Zoraida is a voodoo/wyrd sister witch. She is all about card manipulation and has a great spell called obey, which lets her control an opposing model for a round. I like to run her with dolls rather than he starter boxed set. Collodi )(our henchman) is a super fast objective grabber and buffs his special forces rather well. He is very good and works very well with Zoraida, but I know people have also used him with the other masters to some effect. It depends on which master you like the sound of really (I appreciate these are only brief descriptions!) Your competative masters (traditionally) are the dreamer and Pandora, but the others are pretty good to.... I would start with either Lilith or Zoraida, but if ou already know the game any one will do. Minions ( Some of my favourites-I will give less info on LCB as others are far better informed!) Nephilim- Tots/Young/Mature- can be used with Zoraida but really belong to Lilith. The mature in particular is a melee beatstick but even the tots are awesome for their 3ss cost as objective runners/harriers. Stitched together- One of the most hated neverborn minions as it is just awesome! Its creep fog ability isnt ignored by hunter, and its "gamble your life" ability is fantastic against models without immune to influence. One of the best things about it is that when is dies it gets a free activation and doesnt count as killed. Competatively that is very strong in missions like slaughter and for some schemes. Good with all masters (less so with Lilith). Looks like oogie-boogie-should really be one of your first buys. Hooded rider- A little on the expensive side but great for board denial as people stay away from him. Immune to influence and (starting on the right cycle ability) is immune to ranged attacks. Brillian model/fluff. Good with Lilith and Zoraida. Collodi and dolls I love Collodi-fluff, abilities.... Running him with stitched together, marionettes, dolls and the new effigies is a great crew to play. He is very fast and buffs his dolls very well. For example, he can give a stitched together hard to kill and armour +2 to the end of the game, and boosts it willpower (for gamble your life) when he is close. Particularly good with Zoraida. Wicked dolls look a little on the weak side but are actuall very good when used properly Lelu and Lilitu. So many threads detailing these guys I wont go into them too much. Suffice to say they work well with all four masters and, when used correctly, are insanely good. Not a fan myself because of this! Primordial magic- gives you +1 card with arcane resevoir and has a good cast. For me an auto include with Collodi and Lilith. Insidious madness Has a number of abilties which make is a good pick. Great movement, can strip immune to influence for a turn, gives a - flip to WP duels- I would always have one in my box Sorrows Pretty much a given for Pandora These are some of my fav neverborn minis. Of those you already have von schill can be superb with lilith , pandira and zoraida, and sue can be pretty good with them too. My first purchases (not including LCB) General purchases for all- x1 clamshell stitched together, x1 clamshell insidious madness, x1 clamshell primordial magic, (and maybe hooded rider). Zoraida- Collodis boxed set, her (simply awesome) voodoo doll totem, the brutal effigy, the hodge podge effigy (when it is released), von schill (which you have), her avatar Lilith- Her boxed set, a Black blood shaman, x2 young nephilim, lelu and lilitu (and maybe nekima) Pandora- Sorrows, Lelu and lilitu (to say them again-primordial magic, insidious madness and stitched together). I hope some of this is helpful. If you want to see the rest of the iceberg rather than just the tip then check out Karns tactica on Lilith, LCB and Pandora and Rathnards sticky tactica on Zoraida. They are sublime! Welcome to the Purple side....:masks Edited March 12, 2012 by McDoogle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yew Arcane Posted March 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 Thanks, but I was kind of hoping for more discussion. By competitive I don't mean 'rawr I want to win all the time' I mean 'i don't want to but a box-set Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozz Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 McDoogle has basically covered the important points of what minions are good with who, so if you want more, just ask another question. As im not to sure what to add to that relating to your first post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CN the Logos Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 So, you want to buy a Neverborn crew, but don't want to buy a boxset, and want us to give a detailed argument for and against our favorite masters so you can evaluate them? I ask to confirm this because your disdain for proper punctuation and capitalization makes your posts hard to read, and I'm not really sure what the point of listing all the non-Neverborn things you have is. You can't build an entire list of out of faction mercenaries. Unless hiring Von Schill overrides that rule for Freikorps, which I'm not sure it does, and even if it is legal, it's still a bad idea. Zoraida can hire anything with a Willpower of four or less regardless of faction, but has to pay the +1SS out of faction premium for the privilege. As for the infodump nature of McDoogle's post, you haven't actually mentioned what you want out of a crew. The list of stuff you already have includes models from a number of crews with very different playstyles, and you gave no indication regarding which ones you liked, which ones you didn't like, which one you mostly liked but wished a couple of things were slightly different about, etc... It's hard to give good advice when we know so little about your tastes. As for the boxsets that you're reluctant to buy; the Dreamer and Lilith both have boxsets which are worth picking up for the models in them, and some Zoraida players swear by their Silurids and Bad Juju, which are in her boxset. Buying Collodi without the boxset is just silly (since you require the Marionettes and the Wicked Dolls are useful cannon fodder). I don't know as much about Pandora's models, so I can't make a judgement there, but the wiki says good things. You could buy Lilith without the box, but the Terror Tots are really good objective grabbers and surprisingly lethal for 3SS. Zoraida works well with pretty much anything in the faction, although she likes having at least one big thing that can be obeyed around (which means the rest of her set is entirely optional, since it doesn't provide that). As for specific lists, again, I don't want to spend my time discussing the pros and cons of various builds when I have very little indication as to what you're even interested in playing. Give some hints as to what your preferred playstyle and so forth is, and we could probably help you more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_Ruckuss Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) Ok, ok, so I am planning to pick a neverborn crew out. And I would like to know which ones you would suggest. I am not wanting to pick up a box-set, unless you convince me its best. I plan on getting the horrors amd a few more mercs, but I should go in the neverborn. So tell me the pros amd cons of your favorite neverborn masters, and try to convince me to pick them up with a competitive (or at least more competitive list. So you asked for information about the various masters we have, which I have tried to briefly capture. CN the Logos has illustrated why you would be silly not to start with the LCB, Lilith or Collodi boxed sets when collecting those masters. If you are planning to pick a crew and want advice/a discussion then I would at least say "I would like to play with a combat orientated master and am pretty taken with the hooded rider model, what else could I take?" or the like. Otherwise there is nothing to discuss... "Horrors and mercs but should go in the neverborn" = resse minions (is a little sick) and models you can only take a maximum of 2 of...I am a little confused by the relevance of this info on a neverborn thread. I have tried to help (and spend a reasonable amount of time doing so but I guess thats by the by.....) but what more would you like without more to go on? And for the record, since when were starter sets automatically NOT competative????? EDIT: Oh, and I also pointed you in the direction of the tactica written by two players widely regarded as two of the best the neverborn have to offer......... Edited March 12, 2012 by McDoogle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted March 13, 2012 Report Share Posted March 13, 2012 My take on the Boxed sets: Dreamer: Awesome boxed set. Not in love with Coppelius for evey game with the Dreamer, but still a solid choice. Stitched are amazing, a 7SS model worth of effect for a measly cost of 5. Collodi: Awesome boxed set. You need 4 Marionettes to play Collodi, and wicked dolls are amazing. Zoraida: Boxed set is ok, but not necessary. Silirids are hit or miss depending on player (Rathnard, the original Big Z loves them, I think they are meh), Bad juju is really of limited use. Boxed set unnecessary. Voodoo doll is a must buy with Zoraida. Pandora: Can easily overlook the boxed set. Outside of love of the models the Creepy Children's slot in the crew is totally filled by a set of the twins. Same cost and superior in almost every way. Losing out on Sorrows limits certain builds, but I rarely bring more than 1 anyway. Lilith: Boxed set is very strong. Gives you Lilith herself, 3 tots, and a mature. Other models are required, but a very solid selection and foundation to build on. However realize that even if you pick up the boxed set there are still models they may be missing that need to be filled in. Daydreams, Young Nephilim, twins, etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yew Arcane Posted March 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2012 I am sorry if I was ride with my second post, amd I realize I was vague with my first. The list was to show what o have amd what I will be getting, to display that I don't really have a set play style. I go by the master amd taylor my style to the master. I trend to be a bit more successful with the viktorias, followed by rasputina, with seamus being last. The intention of this thread was to get you to try to convince me to pick up your favorite neverborn crew. I guss boxed our not doesn't matter in the end. A as side note, I apologize for any punctuation amd/or capitalization problems with my posts, I don't have good internet access with my computer do I use my phone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CN the Logos Posted March 13, 2012 Report Share Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) I am sorry if I was ride with my second post, amd I realize I was vague with my first. The list was to show what o have amd what I will be getting, to display that I don't really have a set play style. I go by the master amd taylor my style to the master. I trend to be a bit more successful with the viktorias, followed by rasputina, with seamus being last. The intention of this thread was to get you to try to convince me to pick up your favorite neverborn crew. I guss boxed our not doesn't matter in the end. A as side note, I apologize for any punctuation amd/or capitalization problems with my posts, I don't have good internet access with my computer do I use my phone. No worries. The intent of my post wasn't to make you feel bad, it was just to let you know that we can help you more if we have a better idea of where to start. I know my tastes in a crew aren't everyone's. As for the punctuation/capitalization thing, I fully admit that I'm a little OCD about such things and try to be more relaxed on the internet (because if I spent all my spare time correcting typos on the internet, I wouldn't have any spare time left) but when it could alter the meaning of your sentence, it becomes important. I don't really have a "favorite crew," given that a good number of my models are useful regardless of who I pick as my Master, but if you like the Viks, Lilith is similar but not so similar she feels like playing the same Master. She's got more wounds than a Vik, is very hard to hit, hits pretty hard herself, and has a few interesting support abilities (Transposition, Illusionary Forest, Earthquake, Brood Mother) that you can use when you want to do something other than/in addition to hitting things. She was my first Master and is probably both the easiest Neverborn Master to learn and the least likely to make your opponent curse your name and never play with you again. Not to say that she's not good, she's plenty competitive, she just doesn't have the "WTFhax!" factor of the Dreamer, Pandora, and to a lesser extent Zoraida and Collodi. You could skip Lilith's boxset if you dislike the Mature Nephil's model (I personally find that unless the strategy specifically requires me to do a ton of damage, hiring Von Schill as a Henchman is a better use of 10SS), but you'll want the Terror Tots for objectives and cheap bodies, so unless you're sure you'll never use the Mature, save yourself some money and buy the box. I tried the Cherub once, was unimpressed, went with Primordial Magic as my totem and never looked back. Drawing up to eight cards and discarding the least useful at the start of each turn in a scrap is crazy good. You'll also want a set of the Twins (Lelu and Lilitu) for every single Neverborn Master (except for Collodi, who is a Henchman and can't hire them, and the Zoraida/Collodi crew, which probably doesn't have the extra 14SS); Lilith just happens to get a bonus in that she can support them with Brood Mother and Drain Blood. Here's a Lilith crew I commonly use, prior to modifying it for specific strategies and schemes. It doesn't have any glaring weakness that I've found though, and most of it can be used with the other Neverborn Masters (particularly Zoraida, who I also run) if you want to expand your Neverborn crew selection in the future. Master: Lilith (+4SS cache) Totem: Primordial Magic (2SS) Henchman: Von Schill (10SS) Minions: Lelu (7SS), Lilitu (7SS) Young Nephil (6SS) or two Terror Tots (3SS each) Soulstones in Cache: 7SS As I mentioned in a previous thread, if staying power matters more than mobility, you could put in a Stitched Together instead of Terror Tots or the Young and you'd have an extra soulstone left. It's worth noting that Lilith, unlike some other Masters, is not dependent on hiring a certain amount of Minions to provide synergy with her abilities. You could skip Nephillim entirely and she'd still work (but the Twins are awesome so I don't recommend that). This means you've got a lot of room to customize your list to your tastes once you get a feel for what she can do. Hope this helps. Edited March 13, 2012 by CN the Logos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozz Posted March 13, 2012 Report Share Posted March 13, 2012 Well, Tenki, i will say what has already been said in some way before me here, What is your favourite play style, and the advice to follow will help guide you to the master best suited to you. As games are generally more fun when you play in a style that you like better rather than playing what other people enjoy the most:) Anyway that is my opinion at least:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_Ruckuss Posted March 13, 2012 Report Share Posted March 13, 2012 Well, Tenki, i will say what has already been said in some way before me here, What is your favourite play style, and the advice to follow will help guide you to the master best suited to you. As games are generally more fun when you play in a style that you like better rather than playing what other people enjoy the most:) Anyway that is my opinion at least:) I am still with Ozz on this-would be better for you to put your ideas forward..... However, I would pick up Zoraida, Collodis boxed set, a clamshell of stitched together, the brutal and hodgepodge effigies, an insidious madness and a voodoo doll. Then I would grab Z's avatar and the primordial magic. Will give you an all round crew that should do well in a variety of schemes. It relies on deck manipulation and speed. Its my default crew and I love playing with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yew Arcane Posted March 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 Well, I have only seen three of the neverborn in action, and those would be Pandora, Lillith, and The Dreamer/LCB. I can't say that I was able to get a great impression of Lillith, and LCB chomped my face. I am interested in LCB and Lillith especially, but I admittedly know little to nothing of Zoraida/Collodi except that Zoraida can obey and Collodi uses puppets, and they have great synergy. If you could help me make a decision involving these, that would be great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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