Shank Seamus! Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 Pigapults can be killed in 1-2 activations if you know what your doing . Again theoryfaux seems to be flipping high.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiku Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 Again theoryfaux seems to be flipping high.. Indeed, in the same way someone would make a blasé comment on the isolated engagement of a model without reference to crews or the fact that the pigapults are often right at the back of the opponents side of the map. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attila Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 Pigapults can be killed in 1-2 activations if you know what your doing . I just remember my pigapult being in melee. My opponent charged, hit and cheated severe damage. I said thanks for wasting your high card. Due to object 5 it took only two wounds. Melee expert, hit, only one wound. I moved two Gremlins into 1", healing flip (just to bother him) and launched them for "stake a claim". I said thanks for not charging my last two significant models, which were the only chance to get those two victory points. What's the moral of the story? I go, you go. Means: You waste one activation for a few wounds, I just heal them back with one action. You waste your second activation, I just heal again. Again theoryfaux seems to be flipping high.. Yepp. Business as usual *grin* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy in Suit Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 Pigapult is fine... This sounds like a lot of anecdotes about its success and little mention of its failures... I pulled the nasty " 'pult Pere bomb' on lucius/sonia and blew up half their crew - they retaliated by Reinforcements on Sonia within 10" of my Def 1 Pigapult... The pigapult lived - nothing else within a foot did lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shank Seamus! Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 (edited) When dealing with object/high armour. The main bit that catches my eye, is the line.. to a minimum of 1, so don't ask yourself how to kill the pigapult in one hit, rather work out how to get 5.. In the scenario your asking me for, a wicked doll is capable of doing the damage... (0) to collodi (who if he wishes, can be pretty much anywhere on the board) (2) flurry Then either Poisen can finish it off or if you can prep it with melee expert and fast. Paired vs def 1, but as i said previously.. Theoryfaux is flipping high again. End of the day, I'm very much of the oppinion.. L2P, its not an insult, its constructive. Let's face it, if you havnt done anything before, mastering it is a no go without practice.. Edited February 25, 2012 by Shank Seamus! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Clausewitz Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 Poison is not particularly effective vs. models with the object characteristic. Object is not armor, it does not reduce damage. Object reduces wounds suffered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omenbringer Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 Poison is not particularly effective vs. models with the object characteristic. Object is not armor, it does not reduce damage. Object reduces wounds suffered. Still to a minimum of 1 Wd though, so it can "finish the job" so to speak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiku Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 Jury Rig > Poison in my lists, as I often have things waiting to throw away activations before dying. Frankly I'm all for people throwing activations at pigapults, much in the same way I like people to attack my mosquitoes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornelious1424 Posted February 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 Jury Rig > Poison in my lists, as I often have things waiting to throw away activations before dying. Frankly I'm all for people throwing activations at pigapults, much in the same way I like people to attack my mosquitoes. Oh god yeah! Df 7 and Wp 6, makes them have to work hard for it too. Skeeters tend to be target priority because of Gremlins Luck spam in my experience, which I don't really mind cause I just make more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attila Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 When dealing with object/high armour. The main bit that catches my eye, is the line.. to a minimum of 1, so don't ask yourself how to kill the pigapult in one hit, rather work out how to get 5.. In the scenario your asking me for, a wicked doll is capable of doing the damage... (0) to collodi (who if he wishes, can be pretty much anywhere on the board) (2) flurry Then either Poisen can finish it off or if you can prep it with melee expert and fast. Paired vs def 1, but as i said previously.. Theoryfaux is flipping high again. End of the day, I'm very much of the oppinion.. L2P, its not an insult, its constructive. Let's face it, if you havnt done anything before, mastering it is a no go without practice.. Who do you address with "learn to play"? I'd recommend everyone who can reach the Gremlins base and inflict 5 attacks in one activation on a pigapult should better attack (and kill) Somer or the REAL key models in a Gremlin's crew, which are often standing next to it. Depends on situation, of cause. I agree with Spiku and Guy in Suit. Hunting a pigapult isn't a good idea in general. Better use it's low Df for some easy straight flips in order to place blasts on the Gremlins hiding behind it*. If there's nothing left to launch, a pigapult is nothing else then terrain. *: @Guy in Suit - Rasputina did almost the same to me once. She was quite happy about the synergy effect of object 5 and overpower... lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shank Seamus! Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 My first post said you can kill a pigapult in one go, in return to the idea that its broken, its not. Spiky seemed to ask for a scenario in which you finish it.. so I provided one. Who saus pigapult hunting is a bad idea? If you leave it alone it can cause havoc.. again in my scenario blasts>collodi so a first turn pigapult death would be a good thing. Its not an auto win machine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omenbringer Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 Jury Rig > Poison in my lists, as I often have things waiting to throw away activations before dying. Frankly I'm all for people throwing activations at pigapults, much in the same way I like people to attack my mosquitoes. Agree with this as well. I'd recommend everyone who can reach the Gremlins base and inflict 5 attacks in one activation on a pigapult should better attack (and kill) Somer or the REAL key models in a Gremlin's crew, which are often standing next to it. Depends on situation, of cause. I agree with Spiku and Guy in Suit. Hunting a pigapult isn't a good idea in general. Better use it's low Df for some easy straight flips in order to place blasts on the Gremlins hiding behind it*. If there's nothing left to launch, a pigapult is nothing else then terrain. I also agree with this, the pigapult is best handled by clearing out its "ammo". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiku Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 The majority of us say that hunting the pigapult is a bad idea. I also did not ask for an example of how it could be done, I pointing out the hypocrisy of condemning "theoryfaux" in a way that was even more blasé and isolationist way. Even more so that you then consider Collodi to be a good example of "knowing what you are doing". No one considers it auto win, it is considered an exceptionally VP efficient model for the SS cost of it and your standard crew in specific scenarios, to which Gremlins were already strong at. The only agreed consensus, even amongst the Gremlin players, is that the ability to risk 6 SS worth of models on a straight uncheated 6+ flip, allowing you access to 4VPs from an opponent's master in Deliver a Message is an ability that could well do with some sort of control. Someone complained that it is too effective, and the response has been that it is not entirely unreasonable, but the steps suggested were out of step; making it so you are insignificant until the next draw steps means that you now are a bit more in line with the majority of options available to masters (that don't happen to belong to neverborn), i.e; You are most often relying on a good activation/initiative on the following turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shank Seamus! Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 (edited) Please.. I dont know what im doing due to crew I play?! What's the matter? Did I burst your theoreticical bubble? Ps, I'm a gremlin player also.. Edited February 26, 2012 by Shank Seamus! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Csonti Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 I just wonder how do you defend vs LCB that drops into your DZ in turn 1, kills lets say the two most important support minions and goes back to the other end of the table? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy in Suit Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 I just wonder how do you defend vs LCB that drops into your DZ in turn 1, kills lets say the two most important support minions and goes back to the other end of the table? Wait for an errata? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attila Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 I just wonder how do you defend vs LCB that drops into your DZ in turn 1, kills lets say the two most important support minions and goes back to the other end of the table? Hide the LCB-model, while the Dreamer player looks away *wink* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tadaka Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 Base block him out and use infinite activations to make him burn chomp killing boys? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omenbringer Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 Base block him out and use infinite activations to make him burn chomp killing boys? Pretty much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Csonti Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 Base block him out and use infinite activations to make him burn chomp killing boys? Pretty much. Would you be so kind and be a bit more specific? Say you are facing the Neverborn faction in a 30 SS game. What is the list you bring that a) competitive against every possible Neverborn Master/Henchman and can block LCB out the way you suggest. Please nominate your key models that must be screened/blocked with the rest of the crew. I'm looking forward your answer! Thanks in advance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attila Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 a) competitive against every possible Neverborn Master/Henchman and hahaha - there isn't one answer to your question. Lilith, Zoraida, Pandora, Dreamer and Collodi have all different nasty tricks and different defense mechanics. Against some of them terrain is your friend, against others terrain is your enemy. I think they all don't like being out-activated and playing without control cards ("all done" needs a special suit). You should better ask yourself how to get victory points ASAP with your Gremlins. A general tipp: If your friend's playing Neverborn, switch crews in order to understand the mechanics of the his masters. can block LCB out the way you suggest. For example: If LCB needs more than 2 AP to cut through summoned Bayous in order to reach Somer, Somer should be safe... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Csonti Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 Thanks for your laughing answer but I fear you have completely misunderstood the issue. (Playing with 3 Neverborn masters I can imagine their strengths.) Many of the posters here suggest that Gremlins are the best of the best. Broken, ubercompetitive, whatever. I can even accept that but without enough experience I have doubts and so I asked a simple question aimed to top quality Gremlin players. How do you deal with LCB that drops into your DZ in turn 1 and eats the most important minion faces? The answer was quite generic and that's why I asked for details. Point a) was there to understand that coming up with a good defence against the Dreamer couldn't be made with a list that doesn't or hardly work against other Neverborn crews. Since you don't know whether your opponent brings Lilith, Pandy or the Dreamer, you would be in a serious disadvantage in a tournament if you bring a wrong counter list. And that is not what I call competitive play. For point : besides that I wasn't even talking about Somer... How many Gremlins do you bring to ensure this? How does your list look like? Which models are safe from LCB in your setup? Please note that in this case you can't rely on summoned models since LCB could win the initiative and be in your DZ during the first activation chain and ruin your day badly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attila Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) Thanks for your laughing answer but I fear you have completely misunderstood the issue. (Playing with 3 Neverborn masters I can imagine their strengths.) Many of the posters here suggest that Gremlins are the best of the best. Broken, ubercompetitive, whatever. I can even accept that but without enough experience I have doubts and so I asked a simple question aimed to top quality Gremlin players. How do you deal with LCB that drops into your DZ in turn 1 and eats the most important minion faces? The answer was quite generic and that's why I asked for details. Point a) was there to understand that coming up with a good defence against the Dreamer couldn't be made with a list that doesn't or hardly work against other Neverborn crews. Since you don't know whether your opponent brings Lilith, Pandy or the Dreamer, you would be in a serious disadvantage in a tournament if you bring a wrong counter list. And that is not what I call competitive play. For point : besides that I wasn't even talking about Somer... How many Gremlins do you bring to ensure this? How does your list look like? Which models are safe from LCB in your setup? Please note that in this case you can't rely on summoned models since LCB could win the initiative and be in your DZ during the first activation chain and ruin your day badly. Ahh... Ok... now I understand I would never ever say that Gremlins are the best of the best. Whenever I have to face the Neverborn (and some other masters) on a tournament with a fixed crew, I'm hoping for an easy strategy-flip, praying for a lot of dumb luck and for an opponent, who doesn't really know what he's doing OR what I'm doing(*). That's my only chance for a draw or maybe a victory. *: I usually figure it out in turn one. If my opponent asks me, why I'm passing twice in defensive stance with a Bayou Gremlin (suffering one wound) and later striking on it with Somer... I know that I'll have an easy game *LOL* On the other hand some masters can't prohibt Gremlins to deliver a message, plant the evidence or destroy the evidence in turn one. In my opinion Gremlins are strong in achieving most strategies, but weak in fighting most masters (with a fixed crew). Edited February 27, 2012 by Attila Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiku Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 Many of the posters here suggest that Gremlins are the best of the best. Broken, ubercompetitive, whatever. No one has suggested that Gremlins are the best of the best. They are, however, broken; because the Mosquito re-summon is broken. Taking infinite turns/being able to be anywhere on the board is in of itself broken. You can out activate everyone but Hamelin just by having two mosquitoes sacrifice each other. It is a "broken" mechanic. When Neverborn are announced you could happily take: McTavish, Pigapult, 2 gremlins and mosquito as your core. Place against terrain, you can make it so chompy cannot reach you in 2ap quite easily. Your confidence determines the rest; you could take all 4 mosquitoes at start; knowing that you can make an annoying perimeter of DF7 models with wp6 for any terrifying. Otherwise, drop down Bayou's and summon farm them. Then when chompy is done during normal play, you sacrifice chain your mosquitoes up to any daydreams on the table and fart on them/McTavish if he survived. Equally, you could take a standard list, but deploy in a long line across your entire deployment zone. There is only so much chompy can eat when not bunched together; then just race on. You still have the broken mosquitoes to move around. But you need two bayou gremlins in total, to deal with the dreamer. One at the left of your deployment zone, then other at the right. You can summon new ones off of the one that doesn't drop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigkid Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 Hmmmm....so is it a 'broken mechanic' or a genuine tactic v's Chompy?*wink* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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