Ebonstar Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 Honestly, while North Wind making Ice Mirror reach further might be useful, range is not Raspy's main issue. Twelve inches on the Curse extended by six from the mirror gives her an effective 18" range, i.e., half the table in one direction, and if she's not hugging the table edge her insta-kill radius will extend in multiple directions. Her problem is that most of her dedicated minions are slow when Ice Mirror and Shatter make their positioning even more important, and that if a dedicated melee model manages to actually get close to her, she goes down easier than a zombie hooker. There's not much you can do about that second bit, although Snow Storm does help with movement and is is very hard to kill unless you have a speedy model with magic/magical weapons (Snow Storm hates the Viktorias so much). Silent Ones are plenty useful without extending Raspy's two curse range by another 3". For six points you get a good ranged damage spell, the ability to Ice Mirror it off other models with Frozen Heart, an area damage/healing spell, Casting Expert, a reduced penalty to Ice Mirror, and Shatter 3. If I've noticed any weaknesses in them when playing against my GF's Rasputina crew, it's that they don't have a lot of wounds to spare and I tend to go after them as soon as they can be targeted. Other than that, what's not to like? ^ This. + a lot! Silent Ones do take a bit of care in order to get your value from them, but they can add a lot to the crew. Raspy's crew has some well known vulnerabilities to be sure, but that's the price you pay for a master who can kill most other masters in the game dead, at such a range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 She's also got a good defense in combat if she doesn't get mobbed for at least one or two rounds, because as long as the first model to get into melee with her doesn't kill her before she gets a chance she can often easily kill it with a chained December's Curse, followed by a Soul Stoned Punch to the face. As long as she has the stones and at least one chance to activate she has a good chance. Mob her though, and down she goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucidicide Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 that's the price you pay for a master who can kill most other masters in the game dead Mmm killing dead. My favorite kind of killing. I've definitely seen occasions where Raspy dishes out a lot of punishment, and those Silent Ones are no slouch in helping. As you say, she has vulnerabilities and she should. Without them, it wouldn't really be balanced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KamikaZ Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 unfortunately she has too many vulnerabilities..... ice mirror only really works with silent 1's they give -1 ca not 3 but they are targeted for said reason so using them as front liners among the useful models is not viable they have a poor defence few wounds poor wp poor movement a spell that doesnt actually improve anything for frozen heart even though it states it does.... then to top that all off nearly every model in raspys crew has shatter...... great work there seeing as they get synergy from being together but take 1 down and bye bye crew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CN the Logos Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 unfortunately she has too many vulnerabilities..... ice mirror only really works with silent 1's No, it works just fine with gamins if you aren't targeting other models with Use Soulstone. You might have to cheat high and/or use a soulstone, but that's worth it if the cursing does a significant chunk of damage to something that would have slaughtered you if it made it to melee. they give -1 ca not 3 but they are targeted for said reason so using them as front liners among the useful models is not viable If six inches away from Rasputina is the front line, you're already losing. they have a poor defence few wounds poor wp poor movement This is true, although it applies to most of the Cult of December. Put it behind something more survivable or more expendable. a spell that doesnt actually improve anything for frozen heart even though it states it does.... Are we still going on about this? Seriously? then to top that all off nearly every model in raspys crew has shatter...... great work there seeing as they get synergy from being together but take 1 down and bye bye crew You really shouldn't place your models two inches or less away from each other anyway, unless you need multiple models to attack a single target. It makes you vulnerable to blasts, auras, pulses, etc... Not saying that this will never happen, as sometimes in the course of a game you're forced to move somewhere less than ideal, but this really shouldn't be counted as a major issue either for the Cult of December in general or the Silent One in particular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the imp Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 unfortunately she has too many vulnerabilities..... ice mirror only really works with silent 1's they give -1 ca not 3 but they are targeted for said reason so using them as front liners among the useful models is not viable they have a poor defence few wounds poor wp poor movement a spell that doesnt actually improve anything for frozen heart even though it states it does.... then to top that all off nearly every model in raspys crew has shatter...... great work there seeing as they get synergy from being together but take 1 down and bye bye crew It really sounds like you're trying to use Rasputina as a straight forward beat-up crew. You can't, if you expect to win. Rasputina is about taking advantage of cover and position. Ice mirror isn't really for extending her range, though that is nice. It's there so she can shoot around corners. She should never be exposed while she has a minion available and unless your opponent insists on playing with less than the recommended amount of terrain, you should never lack for something to hide her behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calmdown Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 unfortunately she has too many vulnerabilities..... ice mirror only really works with silent 1's they give -1 ca not 3 but they are targeted for said reason so using them as front liners among the useful models is not viable they have a poor defence few wounds poor wp poor movement a spell that doesnt actually improve anything for frozen heart even though it states it does.... then to top that all off nearly every model in raspys crew has shatter...... great work there seeing as they get synergy from being together but take 1 down and bye bye crew You're partly right. Ice Mirror does work well on other models despite the -3ca, because you can target your own models with an Ice Mirror'd December's Curse and hence not need as high Ca to get useful blasts off. Also, since Raspy can stone and few models have a Df above 5, Ca 4 + high cheated card + soulstone + Essence of Power is also generally plenty to get you a big nuke. It is, obviously, much better with a Silent One due to the -1 Ca. North Wind is a great ability for many reasons, too. If your silent one is within North Wind range of Raspy because it had to be - lets say they're both behind a small building and your Silent One is just peeking out so that it has cover - North Wind gives you back some of the range that you've lost because the S1 isn't at maximum Ice Mirror range. Also, most good Rasputina crews run models like Gunsmith and Kaeris; it's easy for these to get Frozen Heart from Raspy or a S1 and get much needed extra range to their guns. Silent Ones also rock for their close range heals and damage. If they're not finished off quickly, dropping out Ice Wind in the middle of a ruck can be a big swing in the Wd of yours and your opponents models, and it can be ideal for finishing off a model that Raspy dropped to low Wd with Biting Chill. It's also good for healing Gunsmiths since they often end up on 1 Wd thanks to Hard to Kill. Definitely one of the tricks to playing Raspy is keeping her models far enough apart to not shatter onto eachother but close enoug htogether for all of the silly short ranged buffs. They're stupidly designed and basically it is a hindrance far, far more often than it is a help; models with Frozen Heart should be immune to Shatter, quite obviously. I'll finish this with one of my favourite 35ss lists involving Silent Ones (from the pre-Kaeris days), which was been very successful in combat-based strategies where speedy movement is not required: Raspy (7ss) Essence of Power Sabretooth Cerberus 2x Silent One Convict Gunslinger 2x Desperate Mercenary Nowadays you'd run Kaeris in place of the Cerberus and Gunsmith in place of the Gunslinger. And try to get it to 8ss depending on your strategy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KamikaZ Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 all these seem very valid thanks for that the unfortunate thing is I only have access to what I have and all models are december cult no others as I have a family money is tight..... I am aware that models without frozen heart can easily get it so thats not entirely the issue , the hardest thing I find is for some stupid rason I have very poor luck or as it were fate likes to cheat me all the time, any important need to flip high flips end up being low and during these moments..... my hand I picked up were all low........... sucks sooooo bad usually im doomed from the start because choosing strats I flip nearly all the time ones dependent on movement very hard to win these games.... so not prurposefully trying to achieve a mash face approach =s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the imp Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 Bad hands definitely suck. Try to use surge when you can and don't be afraid to drop the black joker on yourself if it ends up in your hand. Also, remember that you don't have to accomplish your strategy to win. If you announce your schemes and successfully prevent your opponent from achieving his or her strategy, you've got a good chance of earning more victory points than they will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cptnbucky Posted February 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 calm down you list dosnt work you cant take more then 2 mercs and you have to pay on extra soul stone on all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calmdown Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 calm down you list dosnt work you cant take more then 2 mercs and you have to pay on extra soul stone on all Desperate Mercenaries come cheap, they dont cost an extra soulstone. Youre right though, the Gunslinger musnt have been in there. Damned if I can remember what it was. Oh well. Nowadays you'd run Kaeris and Gunsmiths anyway, you get the idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cptnbucky Posted February 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 yes im prolly gonna grab her box on pay day and do a fire and ice combo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KamikaZ Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 well I dont have the essence of power totem.... dont overly like it especially stat wise in favour of the wendigo as frozen heart is so useful, that being said essence gains it because for the + damage it has to be linked so because its within her 4 ice queen ability it gains frozen heart but its wounds dont really make it versatile enough to send it forward to cast through many wouldnt use it for that but thats why I take wendigo he can take a little bit of a licking cast a raspy spell, be cast through without worrying about negatives as in EoP + dam and he can collect corpse counters for healing admittedly thats not easy but its an option... a -3 ca option but still handy paired with a golem or gamin he can get +2 Damage against unarmoured with attacks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishtank Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 I think you have the wrong definition for horrendous, Horrendous as in it horrifies me....horrendously good. I hate the blasted thing. It's what makes Raspy tick in my book. At least, the way I'd want to play her. Big ol' frozen Death Star. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelowna Kip Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 I just started to run the Sabertooth Cerberus with her crew and I like it. Very fast and hits well. I cast the spell (not sure what it's called right now) that gives him Frozen Heart and +2 armor every turn I can. The December Acolyte works well to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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