Colette and Soulstone Augury

[pixelante]

This is one question with a few subset questions.

Some of Colette's spells require you to discard a soulstone. Does this discard happen during or after the casting of the spell and do you still discard a soulstone if the casting is successful but the spell is resisted?

Also does Soulstone Augury come into play when this Soulstone is discarded?

If the soulstone discard is a part of the casting cost then I am thinking it would be as you are discarding a soulstone to flip a card as per the rule.

[13th Warrior]

The ss used is part of the cost of successfully casting the spell, so:

Reach the CC (this includes flips, cheats, ss flips - which would get the Augury double flip)

Pay the cost, ie the ss (this is only paid if the CC total is reached, but is paid before the opponent resists)

Then opponent attempts to resist (and even if they do resist and the spell fails, the ss cost has been paid, you don't get it back).

As such, the ss cost is paid after the casting total has been set, so Augury doesn't come into effect.

Cheers

Rob

[Wolfgar]

You pay the soulstone after casting. You do not have to pay if it is resisted under current rulings.* Soulstone Augury does not come into play for spells.

*Personally I would rather have said soulstone expenditures declared AR as per book three, but that's just me.

[von Clausewitz]

You pay the soulstone after casting. You do not have to pay if it is resisted under current rulings.* Soulstone Augury does not come into play for spells.

*Personally I would rather have said soulstone expenditures declared AR as per book three, but that's just me.

This is incorrect. The SS is paid in order to cast the spell. Regardless of whether or not it is resisted the SS is lost. Per rules manual pg 53, additional requirements do not necessarily have to be listed as "AR [requirement]" they can simply be a cost listed in the first sentence of the spell. 13th Warrior answered all his questions correctly.

[Todd]

This is incorrect. The SS is paid in order to cast the spell. Regardless of whether or not it is resisted the SS is lost. Per rules manual pg 53, additional requirements do not necessarily have to be listed as "AR [requirement]" they can simply be a cost listed in the first sentence of the spell. 13th Warrior answered all his questions correctly.

That's what I thought too, but if you look at the Casting Sequence summary chart on page 51, it contradicts the order on pages 52-54. It, like Wolfgar said, places AR after the target's Rst flips. Which is correct?

Soulstone Augury is pretty clear about when it comes into play, "When this model discards a soulstone to flip a card". When you are paying a spell's additional requirements by discarding a soulstone, you are not directly discarding it to flip a card. This ability will pretty much only come into play while doing things that involve the Use Soulstone ability (adding to a dual total, healing flips, wound prevention flips).

[von Clausewitz]

That's what I thought too, but if you look at the Casting Sequence summary chart on page 51, it contradicts the order on pages 52-54. It, like Wolfgar said, places AR after the target's Rst flips. Which is correct?

Soulstone Augury is pretty clear about when it comes into play, "When this model discards a soulstone to flip a card". When you are paying a spell's additional requirements by discarding a soulstone, you are not directly discarding it to flip a card. This ability will pretty much only come into play while doing things that involve the Use Soulstone ability (adding to a dual total, healing flips, wound prevention flips).

The rules on 52-54 supercede the chart. The chart is simply for quick reference. You'll notice that in the chart on 51 that "Caster meets additional requirements" is step D in the resist duel section. In the rules on 52-54 it is step D in the casting duel. The discrepancy is simply due to an error in the chart on 51.

[Todd]

The rules on 52-54 supercede the chart. The chart is simply for quick reference. You'll notice that in the chart on 51 that "Caster meets additional requirements" is step D in the resist duel section. In the rules on 52-54 it is step D in the casting duel. The discrepancy is simply due to an error in the chart on 51.

We assume so, and I have no doubt that you're right. I'm just pointing out how Wolfgar came to his conclusion.

[magicpockets]

You pay then the resist happens. You should come into Hamelins world where you pay by sacrificing a model rather than discarding a ss - then Colette won't seem so bad

[pixelante]

Ok thanks for that, it didn't occur to me thar Soulstone Augury is also used for healing flips, so bonus

[magicpockets]

Ok thanks for that, it didn't occur to me thar Soulstone Augury is also used for healing flips, so bonus

I didn't think it was - doesn't it say "in duels"?

[Headcase2]

It's been ruled that soulstone augury applies to healing flips etc. as well.

[magicpockets]

Well, you can never know enough about this game... cheers for that mate

[Wolfgar]

We assume so, and I have no doubt that you're right. I'm just pointing out how Wolfgar came to his conclusion.

I came to my conclusion based on what people have been saying in this forum. There was some discussion on Entropic Transformation where folks seemed to take the position I just took, and I was tired of arguing with them. Now it's reversed.

I would not use a reference chart, which I noted was erroneous on my first read through.

[Todd]

I came to my conclusion based on what people have been saying in this forum. There was some discussion on Entropic Transformation where folks seemed to take the position I just took, and I was tired of arguing with them. Now it's reversed.

I would not use a reference chart, which I noted was erroneous on my first read through.

My bad. I just assumed the chart caused the confusion.

I never would have guessed that you saw the chart, realized it was wrong, and let people convince you otherwise anyway.

For what its worth, I find that people tend to be erroneous more often than reference charts.