Ramos crew more than one activation?

[duda52488]

I have been trying to find whether ramos "linked in" ability can cause a second activation for a construct within 6"? If you move all your models forward and then move ramos forward and do his ability which says "a construct within 6" activate(more or less)." does that mean as long as the other models are within 6" when he does this action can a model activate again? If you can point me to rule pages or sections that would be the best. Because so far I have not found anything solid to not have this be the case. Or if you do this ability can they do another activation phase because they are reacting to an ability

Edited December 6, 2011 by duda52488

[JuJubee]

(0) Linked In: Target friendly construct within 6" of this model activates after this models activation ends.

Pg 31: ... Each model may activate only one during a turn unless indicated by a models ability....

Linked In is not giving a model reactivate so no double activating.

[Ozz]

It is basically Companion, except it costs him his 0 action to do it. And so Ramos must also be the first model used.

[duda52488]

(0) Linked In: Target friendly construct within 6" of this model activates after this models activation ends.

Pg 31: ... Each model may activate only one during a turn unless indicated by a models ability....

Linked In is not giving a model reactivate so no double activating.

K, I understand that it is not specifically "reactivate" but with your quote that you used it says "unless indicated by a models ability" isn't ramos linked in(0) an ability?

[duda52488]

It is basically Companion, except it costs him his 0 action to do it. And so Ramos must also be the first model used.

Why does Ramos have to go first?

[elril]

K, I understand that it is not specifically "reactivate" but with your quote that you used it says "unless indicated by a models ability" isn't ramos linked in(0) an ability?

Because this ability doesn't specifically give them reactivate. It is an ability, but not one that says reactivate. Any ability that allows reactivate, specifically says "reactivate". Without that, the rule is one activation per turn.

The general rule is: follow the general rules unless a rule specifically violates them. The absence of holding the rule does not allow the violation. And for the second question, since it doesn't allow reactivation, it doesn't do anything unless Ramos goes first to allow the models to go.

[duda52488]

Because this ability doesn't specifically give them reactivate. It is an ability, but not one that says reactivate. Any ability that allows reactivate, specifically says "reactivate". Without that, the rule is one activation per turn.

The general rule is: follow the general rules unless a rule specifically violates them. The absence of holding the rule does not allow the violation. And for the second question, since it doesn't allow reactivation, it doesn't do anything unless Ramos goes first to allow the models to go.

Do not get me wrong here. I understand and accept what everyone is saying. I just want to know where in the rules does it specifically say's that this is the case.

Also with your reactivation statement the rule book states "This model may activate a second time this turn during the normal activation sequence. A model may only activate a second time through Reactivate once per turn." It states nothing about this can be the only way to cause a model to have another activation. It just says that a single model cannot use reactivate twice in one turn

[Bruglyother]

As stated before, Linked in is another version of Companion. The difference is that it is more versatile. First of all, it can be used on any construct, whereas companion is usually for specific things. Secondly, companion has to be declared at the beginning of an activation, whereas Linked in can be used at any point, even after he has moved. This allows him to move within 6" of what he wants to activate next, instead of having to be there in the first place.

[duda52488]

As stated before, Linked in is another version of Companion. The difference is that it is more versatile. First of all, it can be used on any construct, whereas companion is usually for specific things. Secondly, companion has to be declared at the beginning of an activation, whereas Linked in can be used at any point, even after he has moved. This allows him to move within 6" of what he wants to activate next, instead of having to be there in the first place.

This makes a lot of sense, I am glad you posted. But still just humor me. How do we know it is considered a companion type ability because if you go off of what the card says then (paraphrasing) one construct activates within 6" of Ramos. Which says to me whether that construct has activated or not. takes an activation after Ramos.

[Fetid Strumpet]

Hey,

Linked In is just a variant on Companion. There are several models that have a very similar ability, Seamus and Womanizer is exactly the same thing but instead of a construct it has to be a Belle.

So in answer to your questions:

Pg 30 - Pg 34 of the Rules Manual explains this. Basically every model gets (2) Actions and a (0) if they have them to use each time the model is activated. Once a model is activated it may not store up unused actions it might have. Since the turn sequence involves each player selecting an un-activated model to activate, and going back and forth until no more models remain to activate, you can't use abilities that allow you to activate models to chose an already activated model.

Pg. 34 describes action modifiers. The only ability in the game that allows a second activation is Reactivate. Therefore the only ability that will allow you to do so is Reactivate. Since Linked In does not give the target model this ability you have to follow the general rules of activation, which means the only valid target of the ability is an un-activated model.

The reason Ramos has to go first if he wants to use Linked in is that the ability doesn't allow simultaneous activation, like companion does. It is a (0) action, which means Ramos must actually be selected as the model to activate in order to use the ability. You can't choose to use the (0) action before he even begins his actions.

Did that clear it up at all?

[Cadilon]

This makes a lot of sense, I am glad you posted. But still just humor me. How do we know it is considered a companion type ability because if you go off of what the card says then (paraphrasing) one construct activates within 6" of Ramos. Which says to me whether that construct has activated or not. takes an activation after Ramos.

This is a very good question. Some questions around here just seem to be asked in order for the OP to hear themselves talk, so to speak. But this one has me scratching my head as well.

I know I always just assumed that "activation" meant the first activation, and "reactivate" meant the second activation. I don't have my RM with me, so I'll be interested to see how this can be interpreted.

[duda52488]

So in answer to your questions:

Pg 30 - Pg 34 of the Rules Manual explains this. Basically every model gets (2) Actions and a (0) if they have them to use each time the model is activated. Once a model is activated it may not store up unused actions it might have. Since the turn sequence involves each player selecting an un-activated model to activate, and going back and forth until no more models remain to activate, you can't use abilities that allow you to activate models to chose an already activated model.

Yes this answers my question completely, I knew there had to be a statement like that in the rule book somewhere. Thanks for the reply and answer to my question.

[Fetid Strumpet]

Your welcome. :proud:

As a side note, is your Ramos crew up and running yet? Very much interested in getting them on the table.

[Ozz]

This is a very good question. Some questions around here just seem to be asked in order for the OP to hear themselves talk, so to speak. But this one has me scratching my head as well.

I know I always just assumed that "activation" meant the first activation, and "reactivate" meant the second activation. I don't have my RM with me, so I'll be interested to see how this can be interpreted.

If you take the literal phrasing of the sentence, then yes you are correct, you can activate anything again even if it has activated. As stated on the post before yours however, the rules manual explains how you get a second activation, and again as previously stated in the thread, unless an ability gives you re activate, you can only activate once per activation:)

You can rarely take rules at the absolute literal meaning of the words at least in Malifaux as it is far to complicated to write a rule book that you can easily understand, and have no gaps. So it is far easier (to write and understand) if the rules say you can do this, unless you have this rule that says otherwise, hence reactivate:)

I hope that makes sense, possibly have low sugar atm but im fairly sure im right?

[duda52488]

Your welcome.

As a side note, is your Ramos crew up and running yet? Very much interested in getting them on the table.

I am waiting for my avatar to come out and a toolkit that will arrive with it but other than that, yes it is up and running

[Fetid Strumpet]

Awesome! =D

[duda52488]

You can rarely take rules at the absolute literal meaning of the words at least in Malifaux as it is far to complicated to write a rule book that you can easily understand, and have no gaps. So it is far easier (to write and understand) if the rules say you can do this, unless you have this rule that says otherwise, hence reactivate

Its true that the rules are far too complicated which is why I was asking this question. Thankfully, Fetid Strumpet was able to show pages in the rule book that show that this ability could not be used that way.

[Keltheos]

FS got it covered. Reactivaing a model is something specific within the rules. A model can't just 'activate twice' like you had inferred from Ramos' ability without it. There's a bit in the beginning of the rules about taking them as a whole. It looks like you took the bit about Reactivate outside of its context with activations in general.