Biship.. what would it take?

[TimeLapse]

What would it take for you to add Biship as is to your lists? in other words how would you run with biship if you had to take him, how meny points would you need to feel good about bringing him and what would you want in a list that includes (what meny players think) this vary over SS priced model?

Or do you run him already? is he worth the 10ss or 11ss you need to run him?

I just wanted to understand this most costly of models, since he costs almost as much as kill joy does he work as well? with all the 10+ costing models out there is Biship on par with them game wise?

-Andrew

[nerdelemental]

I use him as he is, but only with Viktoria.

He does have a cost and I think most people see that as an indication he's supposed to be the assassin in the army, but that's not how I use him. He's a disruption piece and board control piece. I'm able to slow a model, or toss it toward Taelor and/or Viks. He's able to charge, charge, charge across the board and so he becomes a really solid speed bump for the core opposition when I get him over there and park him in your grill.

So, he doesn't kill anything extremely well, and I expect him to die but under my terms and where I put him. And he further messes with your positioning plans while making it easier for me to kill key targets without overexposing myself - by tossing targets of opportunity closer to my other heavies.

[Fetid Strumpet]

I agree Nerd. But the issue is when you spend that much SS on a model you generally need them to perform a better function than that. Model death is the ultimate form of board control, a model that is dead loses all of its further activations and is no longer a threat in anyway to you.

If you have the option to spend 9SS on a disruption piece or on an "assassin" piece, as a general rule of thumb you want the assassin piece. Because an effective assassin piece is very mobile and very lethal. What you have described in how you use Bishop can be better done by other models who have lower SS costs, and there is the issue. Bishop as a model really only is sub-par once you begin comparing him to other models. I mean if you have the option to take Bishop, or say Von Schill,... well I know where my SS would go.

To the OP, Kill Joy is actually I feel an unfair comparison because Kill Joy actually costs more than his 11 SS would indicate. He also costs time, since he doesn't start on the board, and he costs the death of another model.

A better comparison would be Von Schill who is just plain Amazing. Comparing those two there is no contest.

Please don't get me wrong, Bishop is cool, but he was also one of the first models released for Malifaux and no one gets everything right on the first try. Until perhaps Malifaux 2nd Edition Bishop is going to remain a neat but not totally competitive choice.

[Mr_Smigs]

Until perhaps Malifaux 2nd Edition Bishop is going to remain a neat but not totally competitive choice.

and reasoning like that is exactly why I field the model.

board control in a scenario can be priceless.

being able to re-position enemy models how I chose, totally worth it.

being able to reduce a model's effectiveness with slow, definitely.

being able to bait an enemy into position only to have Bishop hop out of the way... sure...

yes. expensive, because he's a multi-tool... which means more finesse is needed.

my only complaint is that "Adaptive Fighter" should add to CA as well, but that's a minor gripe...

If you're looking for "What would make Everyone field Bishop"... then how about, more fluff on the character, that upgrades him to Henchman.... Bishop, Friedkorpse Combat Instructor.... or something...

[Fetid Strumpet]

Just a different value judgement then. Board control is priceless. I don't consider the battlefield control he offers to be equal to, say, a Rotten Belle, or a Performer, or Lilitu. For 10 or 11SS you are getting less out of him than if you bought Von Schill and used him to direct how your opponent moves, and used his direct attack actions to just kill your target outright.

It is the same argument Nix made on his podcast about the Dreamer's Avatar. The Dreamer's avatar is really cool and I love the flavor and Mechanic of his reality altering rules, but really at the end of the day by manifesting his Avatar you are giving up the ability to just kill your enemies outright for increased ability to paralyze them.

Killed Vs. Paralyzed. Outside of a few VERY specific instances I personally feel it is almost always better to just kill them.

[BlueStar86]

I don't like him, if he had hard to wound or something I'd use him, but as is, I don't think he's neat enough to merit bringing. Even armor 1, based on him just simply being that tough, would be good enough.

[feygorr]

Nerd, i had not though to use him like you do, but next game i will give it a try. I generally take him when i want something to sit on an objective and not die. Defense 8 in defensive stance doesn't go anywhere in a hurry. Although while writing that it did occur that Ronin can do the same thing for half the cost while being hard to kill and harmless...