First Kirai game (now I have questions)

[Alviaran]

So, finally got my first, real game in with my Kirai crew last night. I have a few questions about her rules and a couple strategy questions after learning a fair bit:

-With Enslaved by Kirai on the Seishin, this let's them push to her at the end of any activation. Does this mean I can In the Spirit World place her, even Swirl her after that if I want, and then at the end of her activation I can choose to push them across the board to her? Is there a range on this? And since they are spirits, they can be pushed through terrain and other models, right? (I imagine they still take disengaging strikes if any of those models are enemies. Or do you not take a disengaging strike on a push?)

That is how we played it because I'm pretty sure that is how it works. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

-Shikome and her Single Minded. Does this prevent me from making disengaging strikes against models other than my Prey?

-When you Swirl Spirits, what if they are different base sizes? (Like if I had the Dead Rider turned into a spirit)

And now a couple of strategy questions for the Kirai players.

-How aggressively do you put Kirai up there? As a general rule of thumb I mean. It seemed like I would have wanted to be a lot more aggressive that I was because I was losing some early spirits and getting some early kills without getting new Seishin out of the deal. I get the feeling I want to hover on the edge of combat with some Seishin to keep me safe and Lost Love as the backup plan.

-How many stones do you leave in her pool? We played a 35ss game and I left 5 unspent to give me a full pool, to give me some flexibility while still learning. My previous games have been learning games with Criid and she definitely wants her stones. I only used one though, to get a casting total I needed. I guess if I'm playing more aggressively I can use them for damage prevention, but overall, it seems like I don't need very many with Kirai. Am I better off taking another spirit or two with those last stones?

And for those curious, my crew was:

Kirai

Lost Love

5x Seishin

2x Gaki

Datsue-ba

Onryo

The Gaki got riddled full of holes fairly early on, but that meant other things weren't getting shot, so it's ok. First turn saw me munching three Seishin to summon out a Shikome and Ikiryo with the Don't Blink trigger, dropping the Ikiryo on top of a Vik, a Desperate Merc and a Ronin and the Shikome on top of a Freikorp Librarian (who was the target of one of my schemes and somehow managed to live through the three strikes with one wd)

And to fully flesh this out, last night I ordered another pack of Gaki, a second Shikome, an Insidious Madness (if nothing else, for strategy grabbing, though setting up for some of my spells seems fun too) and a Dead Rider, for when I want some major hitting power. Honestly, I want an excuse to get that model and Pass Beyond seems too fun with him.

Overall, while we had to call it due to the store closing (we are still learning so the game took a lot longer than it should have) and I lost barely on VPs, I really liked Kirai and her crew. It seems to be insanely fast with numerous slingshots that can cause spirits to end up in someone's face without them realizing it. Had a lot of fun playing both the crew and the game itself. Can't wait for more.

[Fetid Strumpet]

Seishin that snap to Kirai, move they don't push. So yes you will trigger disengaging strikes. However there is no limit on distance. So yes you could into the Spirit World, then Swirl Spirits Kirai across the board and then have your Seishin Snap to you. Also keep in mind the Seishin can do this at the end of ANY model's activation, not just Kirai's or yours.

Yes, Shikome cannot make disengaging Strikes against anyone other than her prey. However don't forget the Shikome can still do anything which is not an attack. So she can interact for example.

I would imagine in your swirl of different sizes question you would center each base on the center of each models last position.

As for how aggressive,... it really depends.

The first thing you need to get used to is that one of your best strategies is to out activate your opponent. You want to burn Activations with your Seishin and Lost Love before you ever get to any of your movers and Shakers. This fixes your opponent's positions and possible responses until the next turn begins. So you'll want to scout some Seishin forward for jump points, Make a Few go Defensive Stance, and if you have a hitter nearby you can use the Seishin's Spiritual Empower action to give the hitter a +2 CB.

Now if you are playing against a crew that does not feature a significant # of Undead, Spirit, or living models (IE the majority of competitive Crews) I find I don't want Kirai anywhere near the action, as I won't get anything for my trouble. If you are playing against crews that can give you Seishin your style tends to become more aggressive because you want Kirai up there so she can evolve the Seishin, or sac them for more cards, and then replenish them with the Deaths caused by Melee.

SS wise I usually come in with 3SS or 7SS I find I tend to have better games when I'm able to come in with more stones on her because it gives more flexibility to her casting (as she is VERY suite dependent on her spells) and allows better resiliency because you can spend the stones to prevent the wounds caused by her summoning. Which is a better option in my opinion then using them to heal. Healing takes an action to use, prevention is free.

[Alviaran]

Waitasecond...I can use stones to prevent damage from my own Summoning?! I thought I could only prevent actual damage from strikes and spells, not suffered Wds. Oh, that changes a LOT.

Followup question on the Seishin, since it says move, and doesn't specify towards only that it ends in base contact with her, can I take any path around the table I want? So can I zig zag to avoid entering a melee range and taking a disengaging strike, provided I'm not in one to begin with?

Yeah, I quickly figured out to outactivate him, though he had a fair number on the table as well (2 Viks, Student of Conflict, 2 Ronin, 2 Desperate Mercs and a Convict Gunslinger), but the Student into both Viks Companion chain reduced his number of activations drastically.

I think I have a few tricks I wanna' try next time, with a bit more aggressive of a slingshot.

[Fetid Strumpet]

Correct about the Seishin, you just need to move it into B2B. And if they want to use Disengaging strikes to stop you they'll have to us one at the end of EVERY activation the Seishin tries to get away during.

As for the Spending of SS to prevent wounds, yes, yes you can use them to prevent your Summoning Wounds. See page 48 of the Rules Manuel.

Also you might want to rethink actually spending stones on Onryo. I don't tend to like them unless I manage to summon one.

Edited September 22, 2011 by Fetid Strumpet

[Alviaran]

I only took the one and she was a nice companion to the Datsue-ba. When I picked up the crew at Gencon (only playing it NOW since I finally have it fully painted), I was advised to get a second pack of Onryo. Finding out I don't even really want them. Wish I had gotten a second pack of Gaki instead. But I doubt I will ever need two and especially not four.

The new thing in Twisting Fates though looks like a blast and will likely replace the Onryo. For now, it was partially based on the models I had available. With the other things I ordered, I am going to have a fair bit more flexibility and I doubt I will be taking an Onryo in the future.

[Calmdown]

Waitasecond...I can use stones to prevent damage from my own Summoning?! I thought I could only prevent actual damage from strikes and spells, not suffered Wds. Oh, that changes a LOT.

Yes, but as per rules, you still cant cast a spell that you dont have enough Wd to pay for. You generally shouldnt need to use stones to prevent summoning Wds, I think I've done it once ever.

[Alviaran]

Given how the game went last night, I can see times where I might want to save the wounds for the next turn to resummon the Ikiryo on their heads. I summoned her twice last night and I was fairly close to dead on both, leaving me without the resources to get off another Shikome summon if I had wanted to (I expected to lose the Shikome).

Probably not an always ability but definitely an option I am glad to have open. For some reason, I thought prevention only worked on damage, not wounds suffered. It does make me very happy.

[Fetid Strumpet]

It really depends on how you play Kirai and also how you utilize the Ikiryo. If you toss the Ikiryo against tough targets you often need the SS to prevent wounds as you often aren't getting the heal off it killing something.

[immorfeus]

ok someone please give me an answer to this..."Can spirits walk through walls?" or even better what can/can't stop a spirits movement?