Buried and Burning

[Mr_Smigs]

based on: http://wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24273&page=5

Burning is a token, which later causes an effect.

when a model is buried is becomes immune to effects

so when a Burning model is buried, what happens in the closing phase?

why?

[WEiRD sKeTCH]

Nothing. A Buried model is not "In Play". A model that is not "In Play" cannot be affected by "In Play" effects.

[Mr_Smigs]

Nothing. A Buried model is not "In Play". A model that is not "In Play" cannot be affected by "In Play" effects.

No. The Closing Phase is not an Effect. It is one of the game's Phases.

I'm confused.

Does the burning counter stay on because "effects" can't be applied.

why, if the closing phase is not an effect, do spells remain on the model that is buried? (as I've been told at tournaments)

[WEiRD sKeTCH]

If the model is still buried during the Closing Phase, the Burning Token/any effects remain on it.

[Calmdown]

I'm confused.

Does the burning counter stay on because "effects" can't be applied.

why, if the closing phase is not an effect, do spells remain on the model that is buried? (as I've been told at tournaments)

During the closing phase, effects with no otherwise specified durations are removed, and effects that take place at that point (eg, resolving the effects of burning), happen. This only applies to models in play, and as such if the model is out of play the effects are not removed; meaning that when the model comes back into play, the effects will still be there. Nothing about being buried specifically ends effects.

What does the closing phase being an 'effect' have anything to do with it or not?

[karn987]

I'm confused.

Does the burning counter stay on because "effects" can't be applied.

why, if the closing phase is not an effect, do spells remain on the model that is buried? (as I've been told at tournaments)

Think of it this way, the model is not in play at the moment so it and the effects on it are not subject to the flow of a turn. So because the model is not in play during the Closing Phase, it and the effects etc on it are not affected by the Closing Phase. Basically, the Closing Phase etc, only apply to models in play at that time.

[Mr_Smigs]

If the model is still buried during the Closing Phase, the Burning Token/any effects remain on it.

so, do Phases only affect models in play?

[Ratty]

The passage of time does not effect a buried model. So you would not apply the effect or remove the counter as it does not experience the Resolve Effects Stage.

If it was unburied it would experience the next Resolve Effects Stage, and only then would you removes all Burning Tokens and either suffers 1 Wd or gains Slow.

[Mr_Smigs]

The passage of time does not effect a buried model. So you would not apply the effect or remove the counter as it does not experience the Resolve Effects Stage.

If it was unburied it would experience the next Resolve Effects Stage, and only then would you removes all Burning Tokens and either suffers 1 Wd or gains Slow.

if a model that is buried is not affected by the passage of time,

then the turn never ended for it while it was buried.

if the turn never ended,

then if it has already activated, then when it is returned from buried status, it cannot activate again.

unless it gains reactivate.

THAT is why I ask about if a phase affects a buried model,

if you ignore one phase then all phases are ignored, as they are all classified the same.

[Sholto]

Being Buried means you do not resolve effects on the model that is buried. A new Turn starting is not an effect that you resolve on a model, it is a Phase of the game. So if you Bury a model on Turn 2 and unBury it on Turn 3, it is Turn 3 for all the models in the game. It is not Turn 2 for the Buried model and Turn 3 for everyone else, as Turns are not an effect.

[nix]

RM page 31 - C. Alternating Activation Step

Beginning with the first player, each player, from the highest to the lowest initiative value, activates one model and uses all of its action points for the turn. <snip for brevity> Players continue activating using the turns activation order until all of thier models in play have activated at least once during the turn.

Nothing in here is tied to phases in the turn, so as such the models buried and being unburied do not count as already activated this turn.

[Ratty]

if a model that is buried is not affected by the passage of time,

then the turn never ended for it while it was buried.

if the turn never ended,

then if it has already activated, then when it is returned from buried status, it cannot activate again.

unless it gains reactivate.

Nope.. When you try to activate a model you check if the model has activated already this turn.

Model A activates itself in turn 2 and buries itself. In turn 5 it is unburied. It checks if it has already activated in turn 5 and as it hasn't he can activate.

[Mr_Smigs]

Being Buried means you do not resolve effects on the model that is buried. A new Turn starting is not an effect that you resolve on a model, it is a Phase of the game. So if you Bury a model on Turn 2 and unBury it on Turn 3, it is Turn 3 for all the models in the game. It is not Turn 2 for the Buried model and Turn 3 for everyone else, as Turns are not an effect.

this makes far more sense than "time stands still"

if the tokens resolve when they cause effects

and effects cannot be resolved on a model that is buried

that makes a simple conclusion that tokens do not resolve on a model that is buried

that's what I was asking. is that the flow of logic.

so the Closing Phase still happens for a model that is in the game but out of play

which leaves the question of,

if an effect says it lasts until a specific phase does it resolve on a buried model because of its special resolution condition?

or does bring buried override all special resolution conditions?

[Calmdown]

if an effect says it lasts until a specific phase does it resolve on a buried model because of its special resolution condition?

or does bring buried override all special resolution conditions?

This pretty much takes you back to the start of this thread chain.

"Unless otherwise stated, only models in play can be affected by game effects and game events"

If you're buried, game effects cannot effect you unless they have some very specific wording that overrides the book (eg "even if this model is buried") and right now nothing like that exists (as far as I'm aware...).

[Mr_Smigs]

This pretty much takes you back to the start of this thread chain.

"Unless otherwise stated, only models in play can be affected by game effects and game events"

If you're buried, game effects cannot effect you unless they have some very specific wording that overrides the book (eg "even if this model is buried") and right now nothing like that exists (as far as I'm aware...).

you have a point there.