Dumb Luck Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 Hard to Kill? Cripes, think I need a lie down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornelious1424 Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 All Gremlins receive Slow for their next activation when his action is used, though. It's a great trade off when you take into account (+1) Reckless!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omenbringer Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 All Gremlins receive Slow for their next activation when his action is used, though. It's a great trade off when you take into account (+1) Reckless!!! Made even better by the fact that Avatar Somer can cast his new spell Reckless Frenzy to negate the Wd the Gremlins normally take in order to use Reckless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumb Luck Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 Been meaning to ask this. Does he still have Ill Fated? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omenbringer Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 Nope! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornelious1424 Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 Yeah, aSom'er is epic beyond belief. I can't think of a reason not to manifest into his Avatar every game!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumb Luck Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 Nope! :congrats: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CannibalBob Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 Yeah, aSom'er is epic beyond belief. I can't think of a reason not to manifest into his Avatar every game!! Difficulty in pulling it off? He does sound like one of the tougher avatars to manifest given how vulnerable his non-avatar form is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumb Luck Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 He can get the first manifest turn one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CannibalBob Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 He can get the first manifest turn one. I meant both requirements. He can get the healing requirement turn one, but the pull-my-finger requirement is quite a bit tougher I would think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omenbringer Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 Difficulty in pulling it off? He does sound like one of the tougher avatars to manifest given how vulnerable his non-avatar form is. His 2nd manifest requirement will usually leave him fairly exposed since he has to deal the Dg himself via the Pull my finger spell. He can get the first manifest turn one. He may be able to meet the first requirement on turn one however it isn't as easy as it may appear. He wont be able to do anything else (since he has to use the Take a swig action 3 times) and more then likely is going to have to cheat a lot through out the turn in order to ensure he has at least a Dg to heal on a few gremlins (without killing them especially true with Bayou Gremlins). To be completely sure you need to have three gremlin targets that are damaged and hope you dont pull the Black Joker while healing (if using less then three Bayou Gremlins a single Severe Healing flip will stop this cold beacuse it completely heals them preventing the possibility of healing at least 1 Wd with each Take a Swig action). Even if he does meet the requirement on turn one he can't manifest until turn 2 (generic manifest rules) and then only by using an (All) action to do it if he hasn't also meet requirement 2. I guess you could use a Hog Whisperer to give Avatar Somer Reactivate on turn 2 to offset this a bit (since he now has the Pig characteristic) then use Sweet Nothings from the Whisperer to heal him a bit. All in all I think shooting for turn 3 or 4 manifest is a more prudent strategy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CannibalBob Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 I was thinking the same thing. In addition to the difficulty to manifest early through just healing, it means that he won't be doing much summoning - which is what he is best at. This could severely disrupt your later turns. I guess you could plan for it through using different crew build to compensate for less summons - but I am not sure how successful that would be overall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornelious1424 Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 He summons better in his Avatar form anyway. I will almost always play for a turn 2 or 3 manifest with him. The Hog Whisperer will be back in my list too, the activate spell alone is worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ispep Posted August 14, 2011 Report Share Posted August 14, 2011 He may be able to meet the first requirement on turn one however it isn't as easy as it may appear. He wont be able to do anything else (since he has to use the Take a swig action 3 times) and more then likely is going to have to cheat a lot through out the turn in order to ensure he has at least a Dg to heal on a few gremlins (without killing them especially true with Bayou Gremlins). Gremlin 1 goes, pass, pass, reckless, pass. Gremlin 2 goes, pass, pass, reckless, pass. Gremlin 3 goes, pass, pass, reckless, pass. Bam, 3 wounded gremlins looking for a heal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CannibalBob Posted August 14, 2011 Report Share Posted August 14, 2011 I think I would prefer using Somer to summon, then heal up the gremlins for two turns and go for a 3rd turn manifest than spend his first two turns like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ispep Posted August 14, 2011 Report Share Posted August 14, 2011 I think I would prefer using Somer to summon, then heal up the gremlins for two turns and go for a 3rd turn manifest than spend his first two turns like that. Maybe if you have the hand for it. I've never managed to get Get Your Bro off more than once in a turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornelious1424 Posted August 14, 2011 Report Share Posted August 14, 2011 He heals much better in his Avatar form and summons better. You don't need get both requirements to Manifest. I believe by turn 3 it would be a (2) to summon with just one requirement done. So you manifest, leaving you with a 1 action to do what ever with. Activate a Hog Whisperer and cast Stik'm in tha Ass to re-activate aSom'er, then heal him with Sooeet Nothins. That's just me anyway. I don't know bout you guys, but I plan on running Lenny as my body guard for Som'er. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shank Seamus! Posted August 14, 2011 Report Share Posted August 14, 2011 Piglets aren't gremlins, so surely you could use pull my finger on them, that way you can afford to keep somer slightly back.. SS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumb Luck Posted August 15, 2011 Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 Oh no. Take Rats. They're cheaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornelious1424 Posted August 15, 2011 Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 I'm almost positive it says "Enemy" models for that manifest requirement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omenbringer Posted August 15, 2011 Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 Gremlin 1 goes, pass, pass, reckless, pass. Gremlin 2 goes, pass, pass, reckless, pass. Gremlin 3 goes, pass, pass, reckless, pass. Bam, 3 wounded gremlins looking for a heal. Would work but once again it is four models that are doing nothing to accomplish your strategies or schemes first turn. I'm almost positive it says "Enemy" models for that manifest requirement. It does specify Enemy models and that he must do it so no magical extension tricks either. He heals much better in his Avatar form and summons better. You don't need get both requirements to Manifest. I believe by turn 3 it would be a (2) to summon with just one requirement done. So you manifest, leaving you with a 1 action to do what ever with. Activate a Hog Whisperer and cast Stik'm in tha Ass to re-activate aSom'er, then heal him with Sooeet Nothins. That's just me anyway. I don't know bout you guys, but I plan on running Lenny as my body guard for Som'er. I would strongly disagree with this, both of his summoning shenanigans are tied to triggers. Additionally the B.Y.O.G. Df trigger requires him to suffer Dg from an enemy model and can be circumvented by forcing other resists, i.e. Wp or Ca. Also Lenny wont be much good as a body guard (other then as a beat stick) because A-Somer is bigger then him in both base size and Ht and he wont benefit from Lenny's Big Target action. Will agree that hog Whisperer becomes pretty much mandatory in his crew builds. Dont get me wrong he is good but I dont think he is auto-include. The 2 SS cost for the possibility of manifesting is a huge cost for him, additionaly he favors a Pig Heavy list and because of that is going to suffer a similar problem that the Protectorate of Menoth from Warmachine suffers namely compulsary support models (a Hog Whisperer at the least and probably a Slop Hauler as well). Lastly, he losses any real ranged threat in favor of his melee abilites (which aren't super great) which is going to put him real close to the enemy (and his low Wd's, Df, and Armor 1 are not going to protect him very long) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornelious1424 Posted August 15, 2011 Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 He does have Hard to Wound 1, and Gremlins have ways to heal other models. I won't be leaving home without a Slop Hauler (not that I have been anyway). He can also benefit from Hard to Kill with the Shine Pig (0) action. I mean, Hard to Wound and Armor +1 is a nice combo to have, seeing that most of the time it's going to be weak damage, which the average is 2, so that means 1 wound because of armor, on the average. It does become easier to summon Gremlins, because all you need is to be hit and have a crow for defense. You'll take a small amount of damage, so what. It's better than an 11 to cast Get Your Bro, which can only be used in your activation. Lenny as a body guard is more of a threat than anything. Do you really wanna get to Som'er, when Lenny is parked next to him ready for the counter charge? Even Francois, I'll take him just to guard Som'er. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omenbringer Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 He does have Hard to Wound 1, and Gremlins have ways to heal other models. I won't be leaving home without a Slop Hauler (not that I have been anyway). He can also benefit from Hard to Kill with the Shine Pig (0) action. I mean, Hard to Wound and Armor +1 is a nice combo to have, seeing that most of the time it's going to be weak damage, which the average is 2, so that means 1 wound because of armor, on the average. It does become easier to summon Gremlins, because all you need is to be hit and have a crow for defense. You'll take a small amount of damage, so what. It's better than an 11 to cast Get Your Bro, which can only be used in your activation. Like I said Avatar Somer is going to suffer from Menoth syndrom, those easy healing methods that gremlins have are going to be target number one (even more so then they were before Avatar Somer). They are afterall going to be pretty close to him in order to provide their buffing support (and also to recieve the effects of his Buffs, especially Shine Pig which is a not an ). And when he benefits from Hard to Kill he cant Heal himself via shine pig or Sooeet Nothin's. The out of action Bayou Gremlin generation has some merit especially since they wont have any Wds from summoing however I would rather have them on the Bayou's then Somer. Additionally, Hard to Wound 1 just means he is going to recieve a lot of charges and Focused/ channeled strikes to get around it (and additionally allow your opponent to cheat up the Dg). He doesn't have a high enough Df to ensure that he is always facing flips (Seamus and his Belles have a similar problem). The Armor 1 is definately his most reliable defense but given that he is a big target that cant be screened by anything other then the expensive Warpig means there are plenty of models that can just plink at him from a distance (i.ie Hans, Freikorps Trappers, Nino to name a few) and whittle him down. And in regards to the better summoning potential for Bayou Gremlins from the Df trigger B.Y.O.G. vice Get your Bro, it actually ends up being virtually the same without the potential Wds on Somer (14 cards can hit the Df trigger where as 13 can hit Get your Bro). B.Y.O.G. is more like a last ditch defensive effort at survival then an offensive tactic (especially since your opponent can mitigate it somewhat by ignoring Somer until his support models are killed). Like I said I really like Avatar Somer but because of the above I probably wont be attaching him all the time (mainly just in my Pig Boomerang lists). Glad to see the excitement though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumb Luck Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 I think the option alone is excellent. Even in comparison to other Masters in the game, I saw Somer struggling. But you are right - he doesn't need it for every game. Stuff like Treasure Hunt you're better off taking a load of Skeeters. Best thing about Avatar Somer (and McTavish/Lenny) is they go some way to sorting out the bad match ups Gremlins have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omenbringer Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 Best thing about Avatar Somer (and McTavish/Lenny) is they go some way to sorting out the bad match ups Gremlins have. Very true, Avatar Somer can generate a huge WP buff for the normally shiftless Gremlins. Perhaps the next book should give us a little something that addresses constructs and Armor. I know it maybe a bit cliche (since many other systems have something similar) but I definately think Wyrd could pull off a drunken hill-billy mechanic Gremlin better then anyone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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