Self-inflicted Wounds

[Nightjar]

This has probably bee discussed before, but I couldn't find an answer with a quick search, so here goes.

I know that a model cannot use an effect that would inflict wounds on itself if those wounds would kill it. However, is this prohibition still in effect if the model is already dead or if its death is postponed until the end of the round? The two very different examples below should help explain what I mean:

1) A nurse casts "Massive Dose: Painkillers" on Kirai when Kirai only has 1 Wd left. Can Kirai then summon one or more Onryo (causing her 2 Wd for each) before she is Sacrificed at the end of the turn? Since she cannot be killed until the end of the turn, the self-inflicted wounds from the summoning won't actually kill her, so is this legal?

2) A Punk Zombie is killed. Can it then use its Slow to Die action to cast "Self-Mutliate," inflicting itself with 3 Wd in order to cause the same number of wounds to an enemy? Since it's already dead (and therefore can't be killed again), is this legal?

Thanks in advance for clearing these up for me! I want to make sure I'm doing things right and don't want to employ these tactics if they would be an abuse of the rules.

[Dolomyte]

I would say its fair game, but my interpretation of rules as intended is far different from others.

[Clousseau]

I would say no as you are effectively going to negative wounds (in the same way that you can't heal beyond full health to pass that effect onto other models e.g. Viktorias, Hofman).

So, I think we need the clarifying mind of a Rules Marshal!

[Soundwave]

You can never end up with negative wounds. So with the pz, you can only inflict up to 0 wounds on it, since it has 0 when casting it during slow o die. Aka, not that useful...

And i would say that kirai cant cast, since she cant "pay" the wounds, just like nico can't summon without corpses. Not being killed would just mean running around with 0 wounds, not that you could use wounds to pay for stuff, if you dont have them . Phew, typer that on phone, took ages.

[Ratty]

The Wds to summon the Onryo and perform Self Mutilate are Additional Requirements. Therefore if you don't have enough Wds to pay the cost the effect fizzles. It's just like going down the shops for a £1 pack of crisps and only having 50p.. The shop keeper is not going to go I've removed all your money so you have paid.

[nilus]

The Wds to summon the Onryo and perform Self Mutilate are Additional Requirements. Therefore if you don't have enough Wds to pay the cost the effect fizzles. It's just like going down the shops for a £1 pack of crisps and only having 50p.. The shop keeper is not going to go I've removed all your money so you have paid.

Thank you for the quick answer and very British example

[Dolomyte]

That does not answer the posters question though. well not entirely.

If kirai would only go down to 0 wounds, she would not be allowed because it would kill her, in this instance, it wont kill her, but she does have the wounds to spare. Can she then do it?

[Ratty]

In the original example she only had 1 Wd left and an Onryo cost 2Wds. However in your totally new question. No she couldn't summon a Onryo if she had 2Wds as the rules don't allow you to perform an action if it causes Wds that would take you to 0Wds. Nothing about not being able to die changes this rule. However you can take actions that would cause you Dg or sacrifice you model.

[Nightjar]

Thanks for the response, Ratty. That clears it up for me!