Alp Free!

[AlpBomb]

Thinking about dropping the Alps from my crew or only taking a couple. Will the Dreamer still rock? My locals dont want to play against the Dreamer and Alps and I like the crew and its playstyle, but dont want to lose friends over it!

Thanks,

AB

[ispep]

Your friends sound like tools. Tell them to stop sucking, or get better friends.

[Stern]

The crew works fine without alps! half the strategies don't even require them. being able to select your crew after you determine strategy is a massive benefit for malifaux

[karn987]

Thinking about dropping the Alps from my crew or only taking a couple. Will the Dreamer still rock? My locals dont want to play against the Dreamer and Alps and I like the crew and its playstyle, but dont want to lose friends over it!

Thanks,

AB

Crews work perfectly fine without Alps, infact most Dreamer crews work better without the Alp bomb. It's a shame to hear that your local play group is so against something. Can you use any Alps in your list at all? Because Alps really aren't that bad and 2 - 3 of them is far far from cheesy.

Any way, have you read my Tactica on the Dreamer or the Tactica Wiki yet? If not, I suggest you do so, see the links in my signature to find them. They will give you more then enough information and some sample lists for you to play with.

So what size crews are you looking to build? 25ss, 30ss, 35ss? Also do you have a play style preference? Are you a more in your face direct player? Or do you prefer to use tricks and hard thought-out tactics to win games?

I've got many sample lists I'd be happy to share with you but instead of just bombarding you with information I'd like to find out what your looking for in your crew.

But to take a step aside to another topic real fast, Malifaux is a very diverse game where the goals you need to complete to win can change so heavily from one game to another. Most of the time, it is very difficult to build a crew that can handle all possible Strategies and Schemes well, you have to switch up a bit. So the Dreamer has a decent amount of variety built into him, but also relies on the same main technique most games... the unbury and bury mechanics. But even still, you will take different Nightmares for Slaughter then you will for say Reconoiter, or Line in the Sand, or Escort the Wagon. So ALWAYS remember, it's just as Stern said and I'm reiterating... you chose your crew AFTER you flip for your Strategy, so you can easily build your crew to fit it.

Let me know your answers and we'll get ya sorted out.

[CannonFodder]

If you play 2-3 Alps you are not alp bombing which is fair play. I think 2 is the min for dreamer just to be the dreamer bodyguard\gimps. Once you go 4 or more then you are into the Alps bomb region, its just a matter of how many megatons your packing.

1 Alp = Knife to gun fight

2 Alps = Rifle

3 Alps = Grenades

4 Alps = Air Support

5 Alps = Carpet bombing

6+ Alps = Nukes

If you opponents are whiling at 2, they you need new opponents.

[Allidor]

Good analogy CannonFodder. Stepping away from the Alps I'd recommend checking out Stitched Together, Coppelius (he can do far more than just summon Alps!), and Lelu/Lillitu. They'll give you solid choices for your games and you can use them when appropriate.

[AlpBomb]

I was bringing 3-4 Alps normally and it actually took a handful of games before it all really started clicking. Once it did things took a turn.

We usually play 35ss games.

I really like the concept behind the Dreamer and the models in the crew so really dont want to play another crew unless its on my terms.

As far as strategy I am open to any. I like a variety of styles.

Some of the options I am looking is mixing in Lelu/Lelitu and even a teddy or 2!

Always open for ideas (Nekima?)

[Katcher]

There´s a lot of Dreamer tactincs than ye olde Alp bombs - which is cheesy just until oponent uses google / logs here...

You can drop Bears! Your oponent will love you, when you will get Teddies into CC without letting them shoot it down..

you can play "Hide and seek" with immortal Stitched together..

[Hookers]

less alps = more teddies :teddy

way more fun for everyone

[karn987]

There´s a lot of Dreamer tactincs than ye olde Alp bombs - which is cheesy just until oponent uses google / logs here...

You can drop Bears! Your oponent will love you, when you will get Teddies into CC without letting them shoot it down..

you can play "Hide and seek" with immortal Stitched together..

Sadly/goodly there is no more immortal imoral Stitched Together bouncing, via there card once Does Not Die! comes into effect, you can not bury them any more.

@AlpBomb: There are many ways you can build your Dreamer crew. But just don't be afraid to use a few Alps if you think it will fit. A few is not cheesy and often times those who claim even 2 or 3 is cheesy don't really understand the game. There are far meaner things out there then a few little Alps

Generally if I am taking Coppelius, I like to take 1 or 2 Alps just so that he can make another 1 or 2 and give me enough for an effective bomb for the mid -> late game push.

The twins (Lelu and Lilitu) are a great set of models with the Dreamer. one set of them is nasty and 2 sets gives you a very powerful alpha strike (but is arguably weaker over-all then the 1 set + other models). Teddies are a favorite of mine personally as they cause pure havoc when they suddenly appear like that. Terrifying + high melee damage = opponent wetting their pants. Then again, dropping a Madness with PE up and 2 Stitched Togethers (who start using Gamble your Life) can also do an imense amount of damage as well.

Truthfully... I would go with whatever models you like the look of the most and then figure out how to make it work.

[CannonFodder]

I can tell you first hand that Coppelius is mean, I mean utterly and completely wrecked my Ophelia list (they are all 4 wp). This is after I took out 2 Alps and a Teddy in one activation. I just could not get proper control of my own force. He is now an auto grudge choice for me.

I think the stitched together are another one of those models that are on the broken side. I can't really think on anyway to avoid them from delivering a message once drop shipped from the dreamer.

The twins are very strong, but I don't see them really synergizing with the dreamer too well. I don't really see them getting advantages from the drop ship. but the Lure ability of Lelu will pull models into melee of your other melee machines. in larger games I would conciser them because you don't want too much in your dropship.

[karn987]

I can tell you first hand that Coppelius is mean, I mean utterly and completely wrecked my Ophelia list (they are all 4 wp). This is after I took out 2 Alps and a Teddy in one activation. I just could not get proper control of my own force. He is now an auto grudge choice for me.

I think the stitched together are another one of those models that are on the broken side. I can't really think on anyway to avoid them from delivering a message once drop shipped from the dreamer.

Neh, they are not really broken. Like many of the Neverborn models they just required your opponents to think in a different manner and take them down via something they are not used to doing. Really, they are no more powerful then say the Executioner or a Hanged etc.

For Deliver a message, there are a few ways! Walk away from them. Base block so they can't drop that close. Push them away. Paralyze them, etc. Just have to think outside the box

The twins are very strong, but I don't see them really synergizing with the dreamer too well. I don't really see them getting advantages from the drop ship. but the Lure ability of Lelu will pull models into melee of your other melee machines. in larger games I would conciser them because you don't want too much in your dropship.

What the Dreamer gives the twins is what he gives all nightmares, unparalleled manuverability and a quick escape. He can drop the twins easily on a flank so they can harass, or deliver them just behind your Master. Remember, Lilitu still has that really useful spell of hers (name escapes me) that is 4" range and has a variety of effects... one being Paralyze. So dropping those two in behind the enemy while the other Nightmares hit the front is a pincer move. Lilitu Paralyzes key targets and Lelu just starts killing things. If your careful and things go the right way for you, you can keep Lelu mostly safe and turn your opponents rear into an all you can eat buffet!

Plus Lure from Lilitu lets you also open up your opponents formation a bit letting you make space for say Teddy or LCB to drop into place. Lure can also be used to pull models into the Terrifying range of say Teddy or LCB (remember how powerful fleeing is). Then once they are all said and done for the turn... a Daydream simply buries them again! That hit and run ability is massive, and with the twins Bond (companion) ability, they can hit hard and fast before being pulled out again.

Lelu especially loves the Dreamer because he is so slow normally. Being able to drop right in on his target is fantastic for him. Also you could simply not use Lilitu with the Dreamer and bring 2 Lelus instead... just be sure you get them back and buried before the Closing Phase. I've toyed around with this in hte past and it can be quite scary.

Lilitu herself, being mostly support, gets less from the Dreamer... but that manuverability he gives his crew is still so potent it makes a measurable difference.

[CannonFodder]

Neh, they are not really broken.

Not broken, but definitely leaning towards it. Very strong in certain schemes.

I can see you argument on the twins, but if you play them, you are going to have problems fitting in a teddy, which I kinda like with the dreamer.

[karn987]

Not broken, but definitely leaning towards it. Very strong in certain schemes.

True, but this describes about 50% of the models in Malifaux

It is a brutal game, it's just par for the course of the game.

I can see you argument on the twins, but if you play them, you are going to have problems fitting in a teddy, which I kinda like with the dreamer.

Very true. But thats the thing, you build your crew how you want them. If you like Teddy better, then by all means use him. I just wanted to point out some of the benifits he gives the twins and potential uses of them. In truth, I prefer to use Teddies and Coppelius with the Dreamer over all.