Demo Help

[Hatchethead]

EDIT: Ooookay. So maybe a little tl;dr. The short version:

I'm running demos and need a little rules help/advice! Thx in advance!

1. Determining terrain traits (pre-game). How detailed do you get? How much of your terrain do you consider climbable\breakable? How do you handle low obstacles, like walls, fences, etc? Do you force models to "climb" them or just ignore them for purposes of movement (and does the Ht of the model come into play here, forcing Ht 1 models to climb something a Ht 2 model could ignore)?

2. Paralyze. Help me explain this to my players. As most come from a Warmahordes background, they are incredulous when they learn there is no attack or damage bonus inherent to striking a paralyzed model (unless there's something I've missed). "If he's paralyzed, how can he defend himself??" How best can I explain this, not from a rules perspective, but something fluffy?

3. Ronin "Drifter" talent. I assume this will have a place in a future expansion (Special Forces, maybe). If not, please tell me what it does! We have a Vik demo crew in the store and it's been asked several times. I've been reduced to shrugging.

Cheers!

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The Wall of Text Director's Cut version:

So I've been running demo games out of my FLGS; not in any official Henchman capacity, just as a guy with more Mali experience than the rest. I'm certainly no expert, just now returning to the Breach after a short hiatus from gaming; still scraping the rust off. Doing my best to represent the rules as best I can, thankfully the new Manual is friggin' brilliant. That said, I've run across a few questions/situations that I'm not entirely sure how best to answer/address.

1. Deciding how terrain functions (pre-game). Deciding what's impassible, severe and hazardous is pretty straight forward, but some players tend to get a little crazy specific when it comes to determining climbable and breakable terrain and what to do with common obstacles like low walls, fences, sandbags, etc.

Some people want to make damn near everything climbable; any terrain feature that could be argued to have hand holds (however tenuous). Others want only obvious objects, like ladders and tall chain link fences, etc.

Then you've got low obstacles, chest or waist height and lower. I've got one group that argues they should be more or less ignored and used only for purposes of cover, and others who insist that a model should have to spend the 2" per Ht 1 to vault over pretty much anything. Breakable, also. They want to destroy everything, or nothing. Is there a happy middle ground? Also, do you take model Ht into account? A low wall that could be ignored by Ht 2 models might cause more problems for something that's Ht 1.

Also, determining the Ht of terrain. We've been using Ht 1 = 1" of vertical terrain. How picky do you get? Do you declare an entire wall Ht 1 (while some sections may be shorter and others higher, though the majority is approx 1"), or do you break it up into the appropriate sections, dependent on the actual height of the wall at any given point?

I have my own opinions on these matters, but I don't want to introduce any bias with my personal preferences. Let me just say that I try to keep demos running smooth and fast, but I've been unable to skip this step due to the fact that most of the players interested in Malifaux are long time war gamers who want to "damn well know what the terrain does."

2. Paralyze. Am I wrong in saying that attacking a paralyzed model garners no bonus to the attacker other than stripping the defender of his/her triggers? I believe I am, but most new players are a tad incredulous (most coming from Warmahordes, keep in mind).

I'm not so much looking for a rules justification here, moreso something fluffy. How can I best explain paralyze in a way that justifies what it does while still allowing the target model to defend itself without granting the attacker positive twists (or whatever)? Or maybe I'm wrong and there's something I've missed.

3. The Ronin's "Drifter" ability. What does it meeeeean? The store has a Viks crew for demo use and this has been asked more than once.

And ... I think that's it for now. Nothing earth-shattering. For the most part my demos have been well received and our player base is slowly starting to grow. The more streamlined I can make the experience, the better; and that includes doing away with humming and hawing as I struggle to answer a question or sort a situation I'm not sure of.

Cheers!

Edited July 3, 2011 by Hatchethead

[Hatchethead]

Added a tl;dr version! :dancing2:

[striker8]

I'll give your questions a shot. And this is all based on experience and how we handle things localy so it probably won;t be the same everywhere.

The terrain we treat as it looks and how the rules jive with that. So a stand of trees would be hindering, the same with a swap piece. A hill/cliff the top would be clear and depending on look the cliff face is climbable. Buildings and ruins work the same way, ruin interiors are hindering and the outsides if it looks climbable it is. Walls/fences/hedges we go on how the measure up to the basic model, ones as tall an average mini we call ht2, waist high is ht1 and use the rules from there. Destroying terrain we don't do much but I'd venture to guess we'd say ok to walls, fences, hedges, and small stand alone terrain elements would be ok since they can be removed from the table without much disruption, buildings and big terrain pieces just doesn't work. Basicly we handle terrain in all games the same and use the rule that fit so you might want to use that as a base.

The paralyzed thing I'm not sure about. I'm known for pointing out to people the fluff isn't rules and you have to just accept that and there will be issues like that in all rule sets. Now thinking about it a bit more just say the "magic" involved helps protect the target kind of like a temporal distortion.

Drifter for the Ronin is there for a future expansion of the game and currently has no effect game wise.

[Hatchethead]

Thanks for the input, striker.

For the most part, our issues revolve around what is climbable. Some people want to make damn near everything climbable - "Look, he could use the mortar and brick work for hand holds!" - even if doing so would require significant skill (like Dex 20 D&D Rogue action). I can't see an Executioner scaling a Ht 4 vertical stone wall, maybe it's just me.

This also serves to undercut talents like Arachnid, wherein a Necropunk (for instance) can scale any vertical surface as if climbable. As a Rezzer with access to Arachnid, that annoys me!

Then there's the whole Ht 1 obstacle thing. Some insist that Ht 2 models must expend 2" to "climb" a waist high wall. Others wish to simplify, deeming said wall a piece of blocking terrain that provides cover, but otherwise does not effect movement because it could easily be vaulted over. This is really a disagreement between the WHFB and Infinity players, as I see it.

I can see both sides of it. The rules state that Ht 1 = 2" when climbing, but shouldn't the average Ht 2 model be capable of vaulting over a Ht 1 obstacle without breaking stride?

The paralyzed thing, I've been telling them that it's a balance issue. "It is what it is." Usually they grumble and the game continues, but I wish I had a more eloquent means of justifying the mechanic.

Drifter, that's what I figured. Thanks!

[Serigala]

1. Terrain. Not that detailed.

Certainly not for a demo game.

Malifaux terrain is abstract in terms of Ht etc so its relatively easy to compare whether a standard humanoid model can see over it (Ht1), can hide behind it (Ht2), or even bigger (Ht3).

Walls and hedges etc would all be considered Ht 1, blocking LOS, to Ht 1 models if they are within an inch, and hindering movement (we usually only subtract 1"). Ht2 models would potentially gain cover, if they are within 1" of the wall. If the folk you are demoing to are all experienced gamers then they might feel the need to answer all the other questions but in reality they don't come up that often. It obviously depends on the terrain you have on your tables. I don't think I have ever seen a model 'break' any terrain in the entire time I have been playing Malifaux.

2. Paralyzed effectively means the model loses its activation. Just like a Critical Freeze hit with Juggernaughts Ice Axe, which also doesn't make the target model any easier to hit.

You can make up any fluff you like, but it isn't so unusual nor beyond credibility that a model is effected so that it cannot take any actions, but can still respond if attacked. Think of Paralysed as a mental effect rather than a physical one for instance.

3. Can't find it to confirm right now, but to all intents and purposes Drifter is irrelevant. I think it means that Ronin cannot be upgraded to Henchman, but as we have not heard of any models that can be thus upgraded , it looks as though this might have been an idea they had when book 1 was published that has since passed by the wayside.

[Ratty]

We generally take low walls as severe terrain. So as most bases are 30mm, we just add 1" onto the move for the time the base is intersecting with the wall.

Due to the type and amount of scenery we use we play brick walls as climbable, otherwise you would be hugely restricted and no-one could get to certain areas. It's fine as arachnid moves twice as fast up it, so they still have an advantage.

[Hatchethead]

Admittedly, the majority of my demos run smooth because most wannabe Malifools don't bother demanding a butthole-puckering level of detail with regard to the terrain and it's effects. However, there are the precious few hardcore who barrage me with questions rather than absorb the basics of the game.

[Hatchethead]

We generally take low walls as severe terrain. So as most bases are 30mm, we just add 1" onto the move for the time the base is intersecting with the wall.

Due to the type and amount of scenery we use we play brick walls as climbable, otherwise you would be hugely restricted and no-one could get to certain areas. It's fine as arachnid moves twice as fast up it, so they still have an advantage.

Ohhh. I like both of those options.

We've been bringing the models into base contact with the wall, adding 2", then placing them on the opposite side of the wall. It seemed a steep price to pay, especially for Ht 2 and taller models.

We've been playing with much of our brick and otherwise fancy stone work as climbable. Sometimes I have to put the kibosh when someone tries to convince me that a particular surface would be climbable ... sure, maybe with carabiners, suction cups and your keen spidey sense. Honestly, it doesn't seem to impact the game that much either way, with the notable exception of our asshat Ortega player trying to Obey Nino onto all manner of ridiculous sniper perches.

Edited July 4, 2011 by Hatchethead

[Rezz]

Newb question: If my opponent's model is paralyzed, and my model melee strikes or casts a spell at it, it still gets a defensive/resist flip right?

[WEiRD sKeTCH]

Newb question: If my opponent's model is paralyzed, and my model melee strikes or casts a spell at it, it still gets a defensive/resist flip right?

Yes it does.

[Mike3838]

Think of the defensive flip as "fate", which applies even when paralysed, rather than as the model defending itself?

Mike

[Rezz]

Ok, thank you very much.