Fulgrima Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 So, between this and an email I got this morning re the team tournament I was looking at organising (which I won't go into as it's not worth it), I think I've decided to call it a day with Malifaux. Something just isn't sitting right with me anymore - it's hard for me to do something "social" anyway, and the past few days have just pushed it a little to far for me. I hope you reconsider this as its a shame for anyone to stop doing something that they enjoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewbieFromHell Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 I voiced my opposition to this both privately and publicly before. I short i think it will splinter the game, and the tournaments, this game is fun always has been, and at tournaments its starting to become a "who can design the hardest crew". Power creep is a major issue with this game now, and there are certain masters that there is nothing anyone can do about. insert a rankings system and people that like to win (we all do don't get me wrong, but i won't sit late at night trying to figure out a unbeatable 30SS list) and its a recipe for disaster. its my 2cents and my only post on this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenrir Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 I'm interest to know how Malifaux being on Rankings HQ is going to bring in more players? I assume its because of the traffic the site gets and people deciding to try and get onto the rankings for a different game? In which case, would it not be attracting the very people who are likely to be interested in getting highly placed on the board and will be taking power crews/playing hardcore style games to achieve this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chucklemonkey Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 Given that this discussion has flowed into other threads and the fact it may effect UK players who do not frequent this area of the forum at this particular point in time, can I suggest a thread is started in the Malifaux matters area prior to this getting steamrollered through. Or at least a link placed to this thread. I would do so myself, and intend to later if it hasn't been done. It's just I'm on my phone as opposed to a comp at the moment so can't post links. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zee Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 Let me pop in here for a sec: A lot of the sentiments in this thread have been really heated, and I really want to stress what this thread is about: Playing Malifaux and having fun. Both sides are arguing for this same point, and there seems to be some crossed wires as to why people aren't seeing both sides. The fact that there are some numbers at the end of it shouldn't really alter the fact that you are playing Malifaux. And yes, I know and said this before, and even some of the people anti-rankings agreed that this is not going to be the case because not everyone is like that. In any type of competition or game we play, there is a winner. And that some people will ONLY play to win. That happens right now, even without a ranking system. If I go to a local tourney, I am going to play the same whether there are 8 people or 20 people. I will play to have fun, because Malifaux is a lot of fun! Every aspect of this game is driven by the interactions with character and story, even in tourneys. So now, someone wants to tally who won and it is a different game? I do not buy that argument. You can say that you will be a harder opponent, and I don't see the issue. If you are a player of the caliber that can adjust your difficulty level, I cannot believe that there aren't games right now that you bring your A-game. Furthermore, it's not about railroading the player-base into this without thought. A local tournament will usually attract the same player base - the locals from the area and the few that travel from place to place. Why go to a tournament? It is definitely going to be more competitive than the regular gaming night, where people are playing to have fun, but also see who wins in a clash of skills. This is something I see as staying the same. If you say that you will not play in a ranked-tourney, I see that as a choice being made without weighing what actually happens at these tourneys. Do you currently see nothing but [as mentioned earlier] Pandora and Hamelin? I doubt that. Sure, some will play them, but they already do. Give the system a chance; as MythicFox said earlier, if the rankings seem to become detrimental to the game, it will be something that goes away. ASAP. The funny thing is that this was not something that the company was trying to organize; the Henchmen were trying to make the UK competitive arena more interesting for the player base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 Big post rubber stamping the rankings I've no intentions of getting drawn into this any further but I've had a lot of PM and Skype messages so, to put an end to the debate - is that Wyrd officially backing the ranking system in the UK? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zee Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 I've no intentions of getting drawn into this any further but I've had a lot of PM and Skype messages so, to put an end to the debate - is that Wyrd officially backing the ranking system in the UK? This is me, Zee, providing support to the UK Henchmen. I am more interested in seeing the results before instituting it as an official policy. If it is officially Wyrd backing the ranking system, I will say that in big bold official letters. As of right now, we're in the watch and see it grow stage. Nothing gets official before being tested thoroughly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 This is me, Zee, providing support to the UK Henchmen. I am more interested in seeing the results before instituting it as an official policy. If it is officially Wyrd backing the ranking system, I will say that in big bold official letters. As of right now, we're in the watch and see it grow stage. Nothing gets official before being tested thoroughly. Ok, I wasn't trying to be funny, what meant was are Wyrd saying "yes, lets go for it and see what happens". They've been absent from what is quite a heated debate and if you (they) are saying we should try it it might save James some of the grief he's getting. People may disagree, but if Wyrd say we should try it I think people will be more inclined to support it. And James/Dave will have an easier time getting buy in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythicFOX Posted June 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 And to expand on that, as I've said before; If this fails, we will dismantle it. however I think it's right we be allowed to try. - James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_hazard Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 I just want to pick up on the 'Why go to a tournament?' line from Zee whilst trying not to take it out of context I go to tournaments to get games in as I live 2 hours from the nearest other players (I'm in rural Spain). On my business trips to the UK I try and get to a tournament if the dates match. Not a major point but I just wanted to highlight that not everyone has the choice of 'regular gaming night' and/or 'tournament'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chucklemonkey Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 This is me, Zee, providing support to the UK Henchmen. I am more interested in seeing the results before instituting it as an official policy. If it is officially Wyrd backing the ranking system, I will say that in big bold official letters. As of right now, we're in the watch and see it grow stage. Nothing gets official before being tested thoroughly. Despite implications otherwise not all uk Henchmen are supporting this idea. I am concerned at the mannes this has been implemented and it's implications for future unilateral decisions by Henchmen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th Warrior Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 I'm not sure if I'm missing something here, I just don't see what rankings would offer to the community as a whole. Really, what's the point of them? I can't see any advantages to it. For the tournament players that usually do well, they already know who the good players are and have a good idea of where they stand in comparison. For the ones who go along for the fun, what does it matter to them? The only effect is likely to be "Oh god, I'm facing the number X ranked player in the country, I'm so going to lose." Far from attracting players to tournaments, I suspect that many people will be put off, thinking that, like so many other ranked tournaments, Malifaux tournaments are the exclusive province of WAAC types whose only goal is to utterly destroy their opponent, and not to have fun. Last year's GT at Maelstrom was an excellent example of a non-ranked tournament that was great fun to attend, and pretty much everyone remembers the fun they had first, and the results second. Put rankings into the mix and fun becomes secondary, winning becomes the main aim (I'm not saying people went to the GT not trying to win, they did, but the emphasis was on a number of like-minded people getting together to play a few games of a system we love). Like Magicpockets, I feel we're being railroaded here; I don't say this is necessarily how it is, but the way this comes across is that the important people (ie the Henchmen) have decided something that has then been presented as a fait accompli to a community that has never to my knowledge publicly asked for a ranking system. Why did this even come up? Who decided it was even a possibility? I'll still go to the tournaments that I can get to, and I'll still play the way I always do, but it's inevitable that I'm going to be much more dubious about playing ranked players. In short, I really don't like the idea, and if it means that even one person leaves the hobby / community as a result, then it's absolutely the wrong decision. Cheers Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewbieFromHell Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 Crap Broke my promise (not the first time this year) anyway i couldn't agree with 13th More, in the early days there was an idea banded around to do this, it was quashed rather quickly because the system was soooooo new... at the time there were maybe 5 UK henchmen TOTAL (probably only 3), now there are plenty of us, and the system in some ways seems worse for it. I know of henchmen (in the UK) that are only henchmen to get the benefits, the system and how it is promoted is second at best (but anyway i digress) Although i like that hentchmen started this, i Believe it is absolutely the wrong thing for this system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G&TBoy Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 First off I want to be very clear about the type of gamer I am I own nearly every master, have purchased nearly every blister, play as often as I can against anyone who will play me, have played at the two biggest events in the UK and spend loads of my free time thinking/painting and reading tactics about playing Malifaux....I love the game, the background the models. However I still suck at the game, I win some lose most. The powers that be deciding that Malifaux is to have a ranking system makes absolutely no difference to me.....if Im ranked or not I will still suck. However if someone feels that strongly about being better then everyone else that they have to roll up at every event and prove their the best then so be it. I don't see how the ranking points will change that....if someone wants to win and they have one of the 'it' lists or are naturally gifted at the game then I don't think it matters if rank points are up for grabs or a limited edition figure or even a can of spam they will still be all about the win....more power to them if that's what there in the game for. I think we all need to step back for a moment and realise that not everyone gets into a game for the same reasons. If a ranking system is what some of the community wants then why not, if it adds something to their enjoyment I say go for it. I also thought the community previously seemed adult enough that we could all just get along without over the top reactions that you see else where on this inter-web thingy. It would be a shame for this to cause any rift within the player base over what is really a minor issue, the players who were winning before will continue to win with or without rankings....I really don't see anything changing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumb Luck Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 I say give it a go for a year, if its no good by June next year, then remove it. Couldn't hurt in giving it a go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drake Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 :ditto: Unfortunately you cannot please all the people all the time. The fact is unfortunetely some people are going to be in support and some are not. I dont mean that callously, just that it is always going to be true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pharaoh Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 I agree: some people like the culture it brings, some don't. Personally I don't, but I'll choose the events I attend with care and try to run more story type events to give variety. I hope that other naysayers will join with me and come up with some campaign/narrative/just plain crazy malifaux events that I'd be delighted to come to - provided i'm not otherwise booked that weekend, obviously, I do have a real life too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th Warrior Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 ...I hope that other naysayers will join with me and come up with some campaign/narrative/just plain crazy malifaux events that I'd be delighted to come to... And there you have it - different tournaments / events for the "naysayers". Prior to this talk of rankings there were just tournaments, now there need to be different events for those not interested, thereby increasing the likelihood that any ranked event is likely to bring out the filthiest lists people can devise and frighten off everyone else. I'm still none the wiser as to why the idea was even raised, let alone apparently pre-decided by (many of) the Henchmen I know ukrocky's started a thread on the Warhammer Forum; the few on topic responses have generally been "yeah, it's alright, doesn't really matter that much". If that's the general opinion, why are we being told we need it for Malifaux? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike3838 Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 (edited) More/different types of tournaments and events can't be anything but a good thing though right? The key thing is this. As long as the Henchmen fulfil their promise of offering a good variety of non-ranked/narrative/fun events alongside the ranked tournaments, the very worst that could happen is that the WAAC players will go to the ranked events and people not wishing to be involved in the ranking system will play in the non-ranked events. Although this segregates the community somewhat, I don't see a problem - everyone gets the type of game they want and goes away happy... This is contingent on us seeing some more events of the non-ranked type though - and preferably Henchmen led. Currently the events calendar as I'm aware of it consists of a couple more smaller tourneys, then the GT, then a team tournament - taking us up to Feb next year. I believe the Henchmen need to squeeze in some casual/fun/ narrative events into that schedule and then everyone can be kept satisfied. Mike Edited June 22, 2011 by Mike3838 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverata Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 GT BABY.....sorry sometimes i get over excited.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewbieFromHell Posted June 23, 2011 Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 started to write a proper argument against the system proposed, why the rankings system chosen is flawed, and why i believe it only detracts from Malifaux. deleted it because i realised it doesn't matter, the system WILL be implemented no matter what. I really hope me and the other nae sayers are wrong and once its put up on RHQ the GT suddenly jumps to 100+ Players (sorry for the headache jo ), but i don't think we are. there are always 3 sides to a "change" like this the few that want it, the few that don't and the masses in the middle that dont care(until it effects them). let just hope it doesn't effect the masses in the wrong way, we've all seen systems grind to a halt over silly things like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverata Posted June 23, 2011 Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 Don't let it affect your attendance to the GT people. There is only one a year, and it's not worth fighting over. The GT is about the community, it was last year and it will be again this year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianMills Posted June 23, 2011 Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 I believe we need to get a balance between Ranked,Non ranked and Fun(story driven) events through out the year. Maybe look at implement rankings 2012 and in Dec review on how succesful or not they are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenrir Posted June 23, 2011 Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 Don't let it affect your attendance to the GT people. There is only one a year, and it's not worth fighting over. The GT is about the community, it was last year and it will be again this year Is it going to be ranked? I was considering it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewbieFromHell Posted June 23, 2011 Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 Is it going to be ranked? I was considering it. good question... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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