Ramos fails me

[sephiroa]

i have been playing with ramos for a month or 2-3 and he just doesn't seem to work like i want him to,,

if i take executioner, he always fails do to something,

the steampunk arachnids die instantly

and the swarms are good, but die pretty easy as well,

i proxied kaeris, and she worked realy well together with ramos (ramos accompanied by Mobile toolkit) and well, 2 mages that can surge with every spell they do, i loved it

so how i see it, the one who i loved the most with ramos, is kaeris, she is the only decent ranged attacker/caster and she can be used to let some constructs explode (note: i think if you use overheat on an ice gamin, you also have the shatter since overheat doesn't say anyhting about not generating pulses )

so my list would be

35 ss

Ramos

mobile toolkit 3ss

kaeris 8ss

essence of power?? 2ss

3 ice gamins 12ss

2 arachnids 6ss / (or maybe silent one)

6ss cache

maybe weird but i think this could work

and i think the silent one would be funny giving kearis or ramos 3" to their spells and +1dg and kaeris connected to essence, well, that would be a 7dg on the severe

but what do you guys think? i'm not affraid of criticism i like testing weird and special lists, so if you guys think i'm a lunatic go ahead and tell me i preffer having a good game and having fun for 6-8 turns, than winning with a cheesy list in turn 2..

[Ratty]

Hmm.. how much terrain are you playing with?

[sephiroa]

Hmm.. how much terrain are you playing with?

well, about 50-60% terrain.

problem is, i can't charge over terrain with SA an SAS, only SAS can walk twice and hit twice. but thas about it,,

[LoboStele]

A real key with the steamborg is to utilize terrain to make sure it stays in cover until it's within range of an enemy. The Steamborg has a pretty nasty threat range with it's charge and 2" melee. So I usually like to keep him well hidden, and then charge qn opponent's biggest piece to do as much damage as possible before it gets killed. It IS a bit of a glass cannon, so you've got to make sure it does as much carnage as possible before it gets taken out.

What opposing crews have you been having the most trouble with? Might be easier if we knew that.

I too like Kaeris with Ramos though, especially with the Mobile Toolkit to let her cast Accelerant at will. I suspect that we'll see her card clarified that you won't be able to benefit from both Shatter and the Buning Tokens though. We'll see.

[sephiroa]

A real key with the steamborg is to utilize terrain to make sure it stays in cover until it's within range of an enemy. The Steamborg has a pretty nasty threat range with it's charge and 2" melee. So I usually like to keep him well hidden, and then charge qn opponent's biggest piece to do as much damage as possible before it gets killed. It IS a bit of a glass cannon, so you've got to make sure it does as much carnage as possible before it gets taken out.

What opposing crews have you been having the most trouble with? Might be easier if we knew that.

I too like Kaeris with Ramos though, especially with the Mobile Toolkit to let her cast Accelerant at will. I suspect that we'll see her card clarified that you won't be able to benefit from both Shatter and the Buning Tokens though. We'll see.

the most trouble is perdita, i somehow can manage a lilith and a justice crew (still lose easily) but perdita and nino they just shoot my crew like they are friggin shooting some doves,, and perdite negates the cover,, (damn bullet curving,,)

i tried the cover thingy,, and well,, bye bye steamborg, this was turn 2,, turn 3 it was bye bye joss, i only managed to kill a the judge because ramos was casting 3 times in him. turn 4, ramos was shot into tiny tiny bits,, not even possible to make a scrap counter out of it :stickyman

and well,, i hope they don't change it it would be very funny if i could still do it

[sephiroa]

i understand why the detonation is impossible to generate the shatter, as it explodes already to do damage,

but the overheat well, its not a damage pulse. its an effect pulse. and since it kills the model it is still possible to have the shatter, i think, i dunno we will see.

but you still have your scrap counter lying on the ground

[LoboStele]

Yeah, that's why I expect something to change with Overheat. Damage + Burning Token + scrap counter just seems too much. We'll see though.

And yeah, Perdita is a tough one. Best bet is to use as much fully blocking terrain as possible and stay all the way out of LoS. Tough to do though, I know. The other thing, is to probably keep some Arachnids hidden somewhere that they can mostly pass their activations. You ought to be able to out activate a perdita crew pretty easily. Then wait to move your Steamborg until the very end of the round. Against a family companion swarm, might not survive still, but then your Arachnids can pounce on other things. Actually, knockback would be awesome to use there as well, in order to ignore Perdita or the others if possible, and go for Nino first. Perdita is a tough nut to crack though anytime. I'd suggest going after her minions first, and if possible, use stuff like the electrical creation or Ramos' Electrical Fire to bring her down. Stuff that either bypasses her high defense, or at least makes it reachable (like Ramos' 8 Ca).

[sephiroa]

Yeah, that's why I expect something to change with Overheat. Damage + Burning Token + scrap counter just seems too much. We'll see though.

And yeah, Perdita is a tough one. Best bet is to use as much fully blocking terrain as possible and stay all the way out of LoS. Tough to do though, I know. The other thing, is to probably keep some Arachnids hidden somewhere that they can mostly pass their activations. You ought to be able to out activate a perdita crew pretty easily. Then wait to move your Steamborg until the very end of the round. Against a family companion swarm, might not survive still, but then your Arachnids can pounce on other things. Actually, knockback would be awesome to use there as well, in order to ignore Perdita or the others if possible, and go for Nino first. Perdita is a tough nut to crack though anytime. I'd suggest going after her minions first, and if possible, use stuff like the electrical creation or Ramos' Electrical Fire to bring her down. Stuff that either bypasses her high defense, or at least makes it reachable (like Ramos' 8 Ca).

or use your arachnids to walk as a bomb straight at them to explode?? (i already did this with a SAS with 2 wounds left. walk, hit, heal, hit again, explode, killed lilith, mature neph and young neph )

but since lilith is a melee master, and perdita is a shooty master,, well,, i can kill her only with ramos. and because she has that stupid "see the unseen" my upgraded defence won't work,, same as nino, i wan't to get him in melee, he has only 1 wound left,and what does he do, "where'd he go" it realy annoys me :censored: those ortegas are way overpowerd

well, ATM

[LoboStele]

I almost NEVER use controlled detonation or self detonate. It can be a good tactic, but it should ALWAYS be a last resort. If you need to, you're better off having a swarm move up, heal (always heal BEFORE attacking, make sure you get strength in numbers), attack twice, then scatter. Have one or two Arachnids do Latch On to drop Dita's Def first, then the last one attacks. THEN, have the steamborg rush in to smack her around. And don't forge to use decapitate against Masters like that if you can, since it does both damage AND card/SS drain.

[sephiroa]

I almost NEVER use controlled detonation or self detonate. It can be a good tactic, but it should ALWAYS be a last resort. If you need to, you're better off having a swarm move up, heal (always heal BEFORE attacking, make sure you get strength in numbers), attack twice, then scatter. Have one or two Arachnids do Latch On to drop Dita's Def first, then the last one attacks. THEN, have the steamborg rush in to smack her around. And don't forge to use decapitate against Masters like that if you can, since it does both damage AND card/SS drain.

well i used it because it was funny 3 models clusstered, and the SAS was sure to die so it was better to use the 3dg self detonate.

that would be possible, if i only can get to perdita with my minions. can't i just latch on and atack with the same arachnid?

i will try it, and i hope that this time when i charge i won't get the black joker in my attackflip

[LoboStele]

well i used it because it was funny 3 models clusstered, and the SAS was sure to die so it was better to use the 3dg self detonate.

Yeah, that's probably a good time to use it anyways. Self detonate is really good against Pandora too, since it bypasses the Wp check garbage. So there are some uses for it, just not many.

that would be possible, if i only can get to perdita with my minions. can't i just latch on and atack with the same arachnid?

Yeah you can do that too. I was just pointing out that the steamborg will be much more effective against perdita if you can drop her defense down a notch or two first. At least make her burn soulstones trying to stop you.

i will try it, and i hope that this time when i charge i won't get the black joker in my attackflip

Ugh, well, not much you can do about that, LOL. I wouldn't be too down on Ramos if the black joke screwed you in a critical moment. That crap just happens sometimes.

[sephiroa]

Yeah, that's probably a good time to use it anyways. Self detonate is really good against Pandora too, since it bypasses the Wp check garbage. So there are some uses for it, just not many.

yes but i have never played pandora, she can also be killed with blast markers so when i know i'm gonna face her, i'm gonna use my raspy ^^

Yeah you can do that too. I was just pointing out that the steamborg will be much more effective against perdita if you can drop her defense down a notch or two first. At least make her burn soulstones trying to stop you.

possible and then smack her down with ramos' spells

Ugh, well, not much you can do about that, LOL. I wouldn't be too down on Ramos if the black joke screwed you in a critical moment. That crap just happens sometimes.

problem is i had this 2 times already (only 2 times he ever charged ) so i believe my executioner has been jinxed that's why i use joss ATM

[LoboStele]

Just remember, Ramos' spells are . So, if you latch on with Arachnids, you'll have to flip for targets. Not the best scenario.

Honestly, I have Joss, but hardly ever use him. He just dies too quick, IMO, and often has a target painted on him because people know how much damage he can dish out. Moving the steamborg up slowly, along with using Steam Cloud whenever possible, has worked decently for me so far. To be fair though, I don't think I've played the Ramos/Perdita matchup more than once or twice. If I have the option, I usually prefer to run Colette against the Family.

[sephiroa]

Just remember, Ramos' spells are . So, if you latch on with Arachnids, you'll have to flip for targets. Not the best scenario.

Honestly, I have Joss, but hardly ever use him. He just dies too quick, IMO, and often has a target painted on him because people know how much damage he can dish out. Moving the steamborg up slowly, along with using Steam Cloud whenever possible, has worked decently for me so far. To be fair though, I don't think I've played the Ramos/Perdita matchup more than once or twice. If I have the option, I usually prefer to run Colette against the Family.

true,, but by the time you do this, all his soulstones are out and maybe your SA are dead, if so, well, have fun casting

well yeah, problem is, i don't have colette i will have her arround september perhaps

but now i have ramos and rasputina, problem is everybody gets annoyed when i take my raspy so i played ramos, but he isn't that powerfull atm (in my list) that's why i wanna try my new list

[LoboStele]

Dunno, my 35 point list for ramos is almost always:

Ramos

Mobile Toolkit

Steamborg

Steampunk Arachnids x4

That's 25 points. I fill in the rest depending on the strategy/schemes. Sometimes it's Kaeris, sometimes it's Rusty Alyce (though usually drop an arachnid then for more SS), sometimes it's just more Arachnids. I almost never start with Swarms unless I have Escape and Survive for strategy.

[sephiroa]

thats a nice decent list

but i like to have some ranged spells that can hit very hard

ramos

mobile toolkit

kaeris

essence (either link to kearis or ramos)

4 arachnids or 3 ice gamin (i like ice gamin, they are annoying to kill and are good support)

silent one or fill up with 2 (extra) arachnids

[sephiroa]

i played a game with my ramos crew the other day, and well,, it was awesome

crew was

ramos

mobile toolkit

kaeris

essence (either link to kearis or ramos)

3 ice gamin

silent one

al lot of strong models surrounded a gamin. marcus, rattler and shikome.

i used overheat to let it destroy, and gave evryone a burning counter + 2dg from the shatter (we agreed that it could because overheat doesn't say you can't generate any extra pulses)the i used accelerant and kinda killed the rattler, marcus with 1 wound left (he had only 5 wounds) and shikome almost dead. beacuse they just can't resist accelerant, they where doomed

acctualy ramos did nothing, it as kearis who did the killing and shooting, and me being very nasty, i summoned an electrical creation and walked straight trough marcus (he died) it was a funny game, and i realy love kearis

+ silent one to give frozen heart and expand range is really funny

[HopelessHeretic]

I know that I am in the minority here but I'm not a big fan of the mobile tool kit. It feels a bit like training wheels for ramos. Yes it makes it much easier to play ramos but you can pedal so much faster and harder without it.

With that being said I have very little trouble with an ortega list, but I really struggle with the lillith and lady J match up. Let's trade strategies.

The number one problem for Ramos against the ortegas is nino. He prevents your spiders from hiding because if he can get LOS he can kill it. I ran this in all three rounds of the Gencon tourney and it worked every single game. Take a Cerberus. It is a super fast 8 point glass missile that should be pointed straight at nino. It is one of the few models whose threat range is greater than nino's. (Cerberus: 2 * 5" walks + 9" Leap + 2" melee range = 21" Nino: 4" walk + 16" gun = 20")

Every ortega player I have ever seen deploys nino at the front of the deployment zone and walks at least once with him; either to get the first turn shot or to get to a good firing lane an obey is also common on nino turn one. If the ortega player has done this nino is inside the range of the Cerberus. (24" - 4" walk < 21") So It is very possible to kill nino turn one this way I recommend doing it turn two if you have a good enough hiding place for the Cerberus. This will allow you to have more attacks than the 2 from three headed essentially guaranteeing his death.

Unfortunately the Cerberus will unlikely see another turn after he has killed nino as the entire ortega gun line will shoot him. This is a trade 7 stone nino for an 8 stone Cerberus. I would make this trade any day in a heartbeat.

My list looks something like this.

Ramos

Brass Arachnid

Alyce

Cerberus

4x Spiders

5 Stone cache

After Nino is gone I like to throw electrical creations at them and stoked spiders to neutralize there other threats. The electrical creation is great against the ortega's because they have little healing (Abuela's spell is tough to cast and the librarian is expensive and only six wounds) and it fforces them to make tough decisions. Do I kill this thing and take to damage? Do I walk out of combat even though my Df is only one higher than it's combat? Or do I sit here and wait for it too blow up? All these decisions are terrible.

Any-who, I'm going to stop rambling, but let me know what you do against Lady J and Lilith cause they are both so tough and do buckets of damage.

-Heretic

[sephiroa]

well i love cerberus, but i don't like him in a ramos crew, he misses a certain touch there for me.

but if i know i'm going to play persita, i will use marcus or rasputina to get her, not ramos,

lilith and lady j are easy crews for ramos (my opinion), they have to get close, keep 3 spiders by your side, and latch on, and place them in a way they can't move use ramos to cast arcing screen, i did this to lady j, she did instantly and there was nothing she could do about it.

the problem with lilith is that her crew (and lilith herself) are very fast, so i counter them with my heavy melee units (joss, executioner) altough executioner never did anything when i hit someone,, and snipe them with ramos, and create an electrical creation when they are close to you, it will do a lot of damage, i can assure you that, especially against lilith, her df8 won't work against the creation

and off course have a bit of luck

[brucemanning]

I played Hoffman and got munched! Ramos had 2 spiders, Steamborg, Joss and a MTK. I mis timed my charge with the Steamborg and got munted by a PK. Joss also got mulched by the same PK. Ramos needs good cards and scrap. The detonate of the spiders didn't work as was dampened by Hoff and the PK was be played like a puppet so he got lots of strikes. I'll never use Ramos again against the Hoff, Hoff seems to good to me. Next time i'll try maybe the dreamer or pandora.

[HopelessHeretic]

My issue against Lady J and Lilith has to do with how easy it is for them to get into combat with Ramos. Both of them can take out Ramos in one activation if it comes to that and while pneumatic grip has saved my life countless times it cannot be relied on. How do you keep Ramos close enough to help but still out of their threat range.

@bruce

I find Hoffman fairly simple to deal with for Ramos. I recommend this list:

Ramos

Brass Arachnid

Alyce

6x Spiders

7 stone cache

This list has something I like to call suit synergy. In other words it uses every suit for something and no one competes for the same cards. The breakdown is Rams for Alyce, 11+ tomes for the totem, 10- for Ramos, crows for the spiders, and masks for defensive cheating.

This list is all about having Alyce mess with Hoffman's important constructs via rust. Her bag of tricks is also very useful in that snares can keep out the peacekeeper misdirection can protect you from Ryle and booby traps does wounds so his high armor wont matter. Hoffman also does not typically run anything that increases his hand size so if you have the rams rusty's rapid fire + head shot can kill just about anything.

While Alyce is busy pissing off the Hoffman player you should try and maneuver you spiders into a place where they can jump into combat and paralyze some of his bruisers stoking the spiders will help with this. Hitting his crew should be easy for spiders because they are all right around df 4.

Hoffman takes away one of Ramos' tricks (spider detonation) but he is still a tool box just pick up a different tool.

-Heretic

[sephiroa]

My issue against Lady J and Lilith has to do with how easy it is for them to get into combat with Ramos. Both of them can take out Ramos in one activation if it comes to that and while pneumatic grip has saved my life countless times it cannot be relied on. How do you keep Ramos close enough to help but still out of their threat range.

@bruce

I find Hoffman fairly simple to deal with for Ramos. I recommend this list:

Ramos

Brass Arachnid

Alyce

6x Spiders

7 stone cache

This list has something I like to call suit synergy. In other words it uses every suit for something and no one competes for the same cards. The breakdown is Rams for Alyce, 11+ tomes for the totem, 10- for Ramos, crows for the spiders, and masks for defensive cheating.

This list is all about having Alyce mess with Hoffman's important constructs via rust. Her bag of tricks is also very useful in that snares can keep out the peacekeeper misdirection can protect you from Ryle and booby traps does wounds so his high armor wont matter. Hoffman also does not typically run anything that increases his hand size so if you have the rams rusty's rapid fire + head shot can kill just about anything.

While Alyce is busy pissing off the Hoffman player you should try and maneuver you spiders into a place where they can jump into combat and paralyze some of his bruisers stoking the spiders will help with this. Hitting his crew should be easy for spiders because they are all right around df 4.

Hoffman takes away one of Ramos' tricks (spider detonation) but he is still a tool box just pick up a different tool.

-Heretic

they never manage to get into melee with ramos when i play against them, i have to many minions in their way to ignore, so they have to take them down first, something that not always will work

but i understand why they are annoying, i hate them to, because they are not easy to kill, but casting 3 times on them will do it

[LoboStele]

Yeah, I would never take the Cerberus in a Ramos list, even if I was playing Guild. If you KNOW your opponent will include Nino, I could maybe see it as worthwhile, but even then I don't really see the point. Worst case scenario, Nino is sitting on decent crows in his hand, and will get 2 Headshots on you. Just make sure you don't burn all your cards on resisting the attacks in the first place. Plus, Nino can ignore cover, but he can't ignore LOS. Remember that Arachnids are Ht 1, even in the Swarm form, so find yourself some Ht 2 cover and just stay behind it.

If you run the Brass Arachnid, go for a Stoke at some point on an Arachnid Swarm. Then it can move 16" and still attack twice on Nino, likely killing him. And then when you're done killing him, you still have Arachnids in play, which are far more resilient than the Cerberus, especially in a Ramos crew.

I'm split about 50/50 on the Brass Arachnid vs. the Mobile Toolkit. It really depends on what sort of list you're planning to run.

I do also really like the list that HopelessHeretic posted though. If I run the Brass Arachnid, I usually run Alyce as well, to try and have better chances for getting those high tomes.