Colette vs Hamelin (necromorph) 35ss league game

[Odin1981]

Well people think beating hamelin is really hard but I tend to disagree (granted there are maybe 5-8 crews that its not very hard).

I didn't take notes and no camera for pictures either I'll briefly run down what happened (necromorph if I leave anything out if/when you see this post and put in anything I missed).

I will admit ahead of time I got lucky by flipping slaughter we used the core encounter chart for the league so I had a higher chance than if it was more than just 5 strats. I also took bodyguard and sabotage. Necro took bodyguard and the hamelin specific one. I feel because of the strats I had a pre game advantage because he had to come to specific points of the board that on turn 1 I had all covered by my "tough" models.

Lists were as follows I had colette, two coryphee, Jack Daw (from this point on being named JD), performer and manne, plus two doves I had 4 stones.

He had the list that magicpocket posted about in the outcast forum for slaughter with Hamelin. Don't know it off hand but it was about 4x stolen, nix, two tots, and a totem (wretch thingie) and 8 stones I believe.

Turn one for him was getting blood counters for tots killing two stolen, whacking another from hamelins draw two ability, draining 3 rats from killed stolen for ss, and moving things up around 4-6".

Turn one for me was moving daw up to one forward obj of his, coryphee combining and fast actioning 9" towards other one 1'' away, performer moving 4" forward of rear obj, colette sitting on rear making two stones, manne linking to duet and scooting with, and the doves walking aimlessly to positions to drop into any further rats that came about to sac themselves or be ablative ss to duet if it hadn't activated and sac themselves for def or resist flips.

Turn two:

I won initiative companioned per, manne, and duet , linked manne to duet cast mirrors off, performer stood around stupidly waiting to lure something, duet fast moved to terrain for sabatoged (1)interacted it (2-0vps me) and plodded back to other forward obj that daw wasn't on. He moved things about another 4-5 " forward epic failed grow 2 casts on one and a failed a chanel on other (his hand had crap for 9+ masks). Doves once again passed, and JD moved up a walk and blasted a stolen with rng suppressed (passed wp13 check). Hamelin made a new stolen walked towards me once and did the insig spell on duet (acted right after duet did).

Turn 3: hamelin initative:

Hamelin went first made stolen, pipes on duet for 3 (moderate I think , I forgot bulletproof), and spell casted the pull insig models so duet stopped like 1" away from him.

Duet activated, sword dance, use ss, and heal flipped I believe moderate, fast act disengaged hamelin moved 8" sword danced on nix for severe(2 spirit:evil: ) triggered 4" push put duet between nix and terror tot both in melee range. First ap cast blinding on nix (spent ss) for a 6 better total cheated red joker+ flipped severe (Rick Flair woooh inserted here) for 6(4 after mr2) killing nix pushed 3" to other side of tot further away from hame. Last ap'd one hit tot triggering nothing (cheated severe.

He finally had a mask to grow other tot to young and then moved him closer to empty destroy counter. Drew with totem and other stuff just shambled forward. I activated JD before he had chained them together and double moved to within 3 of 4 rats that had appeared from stolen dying and the drain soul stuff and got severed ties off.

Doves moved up to various spots to chain gang a severed tied hame hame next turn performer walked twice forward to distract something (lol never happens just get ignored always), colette made ss, reactivated (0) and illusionist switched with performer. On reactivated made another ss and I believe magician's dueled another stolen passed wp 13 check.

The 4 rats activated last I think and profoundly failed all 3 terror checks that were in range of JD's melee (again insert Ric Flair Wooh here).

Turn 4 hame iniat off of a burned ss:

This in my opinion was the key turn off a flipped black joker for damage on a dove. Hamelin activated made a stolen ( I believe unsure).

Cast off the lure spell was in range of duet, manne , and both doves none resisted one dove into contact (black joker on damage) duet took 6 burned a dove for damage prevention absorbed 2, other dove like 2" away from base contact, manne behind dove and duet but in melee orange of hamelin. Then attacked duet cheating a 11 but epic failing on ss was I believe a 3 or less. Duet flipped a 9 for def then burned off other dove for a clutch 11 to make hamelin miss (insert another Rick Flair Wooh).

This was key because if I remember duet was reduced to one wound and could have really changed things had he not missed with last ap.

Duet activated (sword dance, heal flip for 3, use ss). Fast ap'd a disengage of hamelin (ss) on both were involved moved to young sword danced for severe. Pushed off trigger inbetween young and 3 of the running rats who were stuck on the table edge.

1st Ap'd swwing on young for weak(2), and finally killed with last ap swinging again (I realised I made a mistake here because he just had 2 wounds remaining and hamelin was more than 6" away from 3 running rats I should have did the non showgirl pulse for 2 wds (oh well noone is perfect).

Rats chain ganged all rallying (somehow getting to sing on duet not sure how but 1 hit did weak damage + 1 blight counter). I might be confusing the rats swinging on 5 but this is all from memory so rules lawyers shhh.

Totem of his moved towards empty destroy token so did a rat after I killed the stolen he summoned with a rng suppresed from JD. Rat eventually moved towards it as well. Other 3 rats rallyed.

Jack Daw activated after peformer at some point started to tap her foot to 99 luftballons song singing at the kareoke bar on rear token (just once I would like to do something with them then just stand around on obj tokens but alas no rat catchers so I couldn't quasi lure them).

In retro spec this game specifically I should have hired convict slinger I believe for suppresing fire shenanagins on closely grp'd minions of his. Moved to within 6" of hamelin and then shot above mentioned stolen. Think I had to cheat the wp 13 duel here. Colette illusionisted with the manne after making a ss and getting react.

Manne moved onto top objective.

Turn 5 colette iniative:

Activated duet doing the heal flip gained 2 to put me back up to 4 wounds, use ss, and sword dance and defensive stanced awaiting hamelin's attacks. Hamelin played follow the duet (move), gathered up the remaining 3 rats by duet for more ss, and cast the push for damage but duet resisted.

JD activated walking to within 6" of hamelin but outside of duet and severed tied.

Colette activated (gave herself reactivate) illusionist switching with duet and magicians dueled hamelin for severe(cheated) I flipped good for initial duel didn't even have to ss. On react failed one duel (only had 2 ss at that point didn't want to waste one for anything other than defense), then dueled again for moderate leaving hamelin at 3 wd's.

His totem moved towards manne on the top obj as well as a rat that was made when stolen got capped from turn 4. And the rat that ran in the other direction of the 3 who ran towards his board edge moved up around midfield staring down the manne for an epic duel of useless models next turn (Rick Flair WOOH). Manne casted beautiful cloths for shlits and giggles on said rat but flipped crow for trigger laughable making him further slowed.

Turn 6 iniative colette (necro flipped a black joker for iniatative)

At this point we called it due to no real reason to finish due to being the worst I could have ended was 6-3 (a rat interacted with the one I left on turn 5 after the duet pushed forward to rape and pillage) if he somehow would have survived but I would not have been surprised if he would have died to 3-4 magicians duels unless he ran away and disengaged from colette but the final was 8-3.

I had the cards in hand to activate JD first and put up aura then attempting to noose him 2x (had the card in hand to cheat in severed ties). I also outactivated him every turn so I could wait to activate JD after Hamelin to just follow him around. Also he mentioned at the end of the game he had 6 cards in hand but none were higher than a 7.

Aftermath:

We talked after the game and agreed that he more than likely should have tried to spread insignificant at least onto colette and then spammed the pulse pull around more however half the game he was in Jack Daw's severed aura so he really couldn't due much to really up his totals in alot of the duels.

Also he continually had to make stolen (from like turn three on) due to me always whacking them so he was forced to keep feeding me slaughter points.

However I admit by how the strategies were that I was at a advantage due to covering them. He originally pulled reconiter but in my opinion wisely spent a ss to reflip.

I would have much rather had a different strat then slaughter to see how the match up would play out. In a normal non favored game for me however in our league prior to this week he was the top seed and I was in 2nd place so I will admit there was no way in hell I was gona change slaughter this game.

[Odin1981]

I could write some more points in the aftermath but at the moment I am lazy and don't feel like it due to writing an extremley long post.

[Csonti]

Great report! Sidenote: you can't reflip the core encounter table with SS, just the extended individual one.

[Necromorph]

Yeah happened pretty much as Odin stated, a couple minor details, but nothing major (I made the duet Insig with (1) Understand the Soulless, not Pipes but that's the only major one). I would only disagree with Odin on 1 point though. Hamelin is never an "easy win" I don't care who you are. The game was easy for him for a couple of reasons. 1, he flipped slaughter. 2 I was trying an experimental list. 3 I just had bad luck, no 2 ways about it.

Now I'm not saying luck had everything to do with the loss, but it was a large contributing factor, I had quite a few things going against me. Strategy, bad hand, bad flips, and a list I was unfamiliar with. What you may or may not have noticed (not sure if he posted this) but it took me 3 turns to grow 1 tot into a young. 3 turns of casting/focus casting/drawing cards via cheating or the wretch to grow 1. Granted this is pretty shitty luck by anyones standards but I spent way to long waiting for them to grow. I would add an addition to Magic's slaughter list by saying hey, if you don't grow them turn 1-2, forget it, and just start going, sac them like everything else and just go for the extra stones.

On top of being at a huge disadvantage already, JD won the game for him, hands down. Not being able to cheat with Hamelin's something-teen ss made it a pain to get anything done. The duet just wouldn't f**king die, which shouldn't have really been a problem but when you spend half the game with nothing higher than a 9 in your hand, it's tough to cheat for that "killing blow." It was a pretty pathetic game, tbh, and I think we both knew going into it who would win, and by turn 4 it was obvious that due to my shitty flips and inability to cheat with anything decent that it was gonna be a pretty boring, lopsided game. However, I have to give credit where it's due...Odin has a little bit more experience at the game as well, so there are some instances where I may have been outplayed, but it might have at least been close if he hadn't flipped slaughter so I could have run a more traditional Hamelin crew. Magic's crew suggestion for slaughter CAN work, and at least it gives you a chance, but it's by no means a guarantee. As I believe I said in one of his posts (maybe not, but w/e) Magic's suggested crew for slaughter only really works if it's shared slaughter, or if just Hamelin has slaughter...if your opponent flips it and you get something else....then you have a very model limited, low Wp crew that's may or may not have enough models to complete your strat by the end of the game.

My 2c.

[Odin1981]

Great report! Sidenote: you can't reflip the core encounter table with SS, just the extended individual one.

Ah ok didn't know that but in all fairness due to how hard it would have been to him for reconiter (or however it is spelled) had I known that rule i'd have still happily to gentlemens rule allowed him to try and reflip for a less bent scheme.

Necro: Hey in your post I didn't mean that it was a "easy win" for me I just stated that for around 5-8 crews I don't think it is hard as most on the forum think it is to be able to eek out a win against hamelin.

Tommorow when I get up i'll come back to this report to comment on a few things as well and respond to anyones questions/comments but its late for me now. But before I go tonight I will firmly agree with necromorph that Jack Daw was hands down the mvp of the game stopping him from cheat/ss for half the game for me (honorable mention to duet due to killing like 20 of 30 points or so I ended up whacking, but if it had died on turn 4 like it more than likely should have when you won init it would have been alot closer).

Edited June 12, 2011 by Odin1981

[Q'iq'el]

What you may or may not have noticed (not sure if he posted this) but it took me 3 turns to grow 1 tot into a young. 3 turns of casting/focus casting/drawing cards via cheating or the wretch to grow 1. Granted this is pretty shitty luck by anyones standards but I spent way to long waiting for them to grow.

As a long time Lilith player I have one comment to make - if you expect to Grow Terror Tots with no help, you have an unreliable plan.

I went through the same kind of problems back in the Book 1 days more than once and I ended up building my crews around Young Nephilim and Waldgeists - they may cost more, but they do perform and can Mature easily if needed. (I'd take a Tot or two as a backup back then, or to run errands, but nothing more than that).

The second :masks requirement on Grow means you cannot do it without a high :masks in your hand. Not do the Tots need these high :masks for Flay trigger, but you may simply never see one in your hand. It's random, after all.

[magicpockets]

Nice report - few observations, mainly from Hamelin's point of view (if I've misinterpreted let me know) -

He had the list that magicpocket posted about in the outcast forum for slaughter with Hamelin. Don't know it off hand but it was about 4x stolen, nix, two tots, and a totem (wretch thingie) and 8 stones I believe.

Yeah, this is mistake number one - like Necro realised later it's only ever any good if you're in shared slaughter or doing it yourself, it's okay but not as effective against slaughter. The list was written amongst a few Gaining Ground tourny's which use shared strategies.

Turn one for him was getting blood counters for tots killing two stolen

Get blood counters from rats, you want to be doing drain souls on your stolen as they drop rats (i.e. you get 2ss per stolen via drain souls)

and moving things up around 4-6".

Bad idea in turn one with this list - stay as far away as you can

colette sitting on rear making two stones

Assume via reactivate and her free soulstone?

duet fast moved to terrain for sabatoged (1)interacted it (2-0vps me)

Yawn....

He moved things about another 4-5 " forward epic failed grow 2 casts on one and a failed a chanel on other (his hand had crap for 9+ masks).

Again, don't walk unless you have to - it uses valuable AP. And why channel grow? There's no damage flip so you're better trying it twice in case you get it off on the first try (if not you still get two cards to try with). Also, having played it a few times I'm leaning more towards just one tot in the list.

Hamelin...did the insig spell on duet (acted right after duet did).

That should have been close to game over for Collette now

Hamelin went first made stolen, pipes on duet for 3 (moderate I think , I forgot bulletproof), and spell casted the pull insig models so duet stopped like 1" away from him.

Don't mean to be harsh but seems like waste of an activation. If you could lure the Duet in you should have done that first, picked a (0) for the buff and then smashed it in melee - especially as it hadn't done souldancer yet. Or at worst cast the spell which means it can only target you from now on - stops his Duet dicing your stolen and rats.

Duet activated, sword dance, use ss, and heal flipped I believe moderate, fast act disengaged hamelin moved 8" sword danced on nix for severe(2 spirit:evil: ) triggered 4" push put duet between nix and terror tot both in melee range. First ap cast blinding on nix (spent ss) for a 6 better total cheated red joker+ flipped severe (Rick Flair woooh inserted here) for 6(4 after mr2) killing nix pushed 3" to other side of tot further away from hame.

That's what happens when you don't deal with Duets asap

I activated JD before he had chained them together and double moved to within 3 of 4 rats that had appeared from stolen dying and the drain soul stuff and got severed ties off.

(0) Impetuous is your friend - assuming they didn't run off because of terrifying

The 4 rats activated last I think and profoundly failed all 3 terror checks that were in range of JD's melee (again insert Ric Flair Wooh here).

Ahhhhh........

This was key because if I remember duet was reduced to one wound and could have really changed things had he not missed with last ap.

Or dealt with it two turn ago

Duet activated (sword dance, heal flip for 3, use ss). Fast ap'd a disengage of hamelin (ss) on both were involved moved to young sword danced for severe. Pushed off trigger inbetween young and 3 of the running rats who were stuck on the table edge.

1st Ap'd swwing on young for weak(2), and finally killed with last ap swinging again (I realised I made a mistake here because he just had 2 wounds remaining and hamelin was more than 6" away from 3 running rats I should have did the non showgirl pulse for 2 wds (oh well noone is perfect).

There's that duet again....

Aftermath:

We talked after the game and agreed that he more than likely should have tried to spread insignificant at least onto colette and then spammed the pulse pull around more however half the game he was in Jack Daw's severed aura so he really couldn't due much to really up his totals in alot of the duels.

He could have dealt with JD as a priority, as ideas either spamming abandon to burn your cards or, better, getting a blight couter on him from nix with emptiness in play and then spamming bleeding disease from Hamelin and stolen. It's a very hard ask, but you can quite quickly burn through his cards and ss which Collette needs badly. Also, did I mention he should have dealt with that damn duet?

Also he continually had to make stolen (from like turn three on) due to me always whacking them so he was forced to keep feeding me slaughter points.

Yeah, I don't get this - why? You had a billion soulstones, why do you need to spend AP on Stolen?

He originally pulled reconiter but in my opinion wisely spent a ss to reflip.

As mentioned you can't reflip this, but imo Reconnoiter is one of Hamelin's best strategies.

What you may or may not have noticed (not sure if he posted this) but it took me 3 turns to grow 1 tot into a young. 3 turns of casting/focus casting/drawing cards via cheating or the wretch to grow 1. Granted this is pretty shitty luck by anyones standards but I spent way to long waiting for them to grow. I would add an addition to Magic's slaughter list by saying hey, if you don't grow them turn 1-2, forget it, and just start going, sac them like everything else and just go for the extra stones.

Yeah, major shitty luck mate I agree with leaving it if you have to - or only taking 1 Tot in the list

Magic's crew suggestion for slaughter CAN work, and at least it gives you a chance, but it's by no means a guarantee. As I believe I said in one of his posts (maybe not, but w/e) Magic's suggested crew for slaughter only really works if it's shared slaughter, or if just Hamelin has slaughter...if your opponent flips it and you get something else....then you have a very model limited, low Wp crew that's may or may not have enough models to complete your strat by the end of the game.

My 2c.

You're 100% right with this

As a long time Lilith player I have one comment to make - if you expect to Grow Terror Tots with no help, you have an unreliable plan.

I went through the same kind of problems back in the Book 1 days more than once and I ended up building my crews around Young Nephilim and Waldgeists - they may cost more, but they do perform and can Mature easily if needed. (I'd take a Tot or two as a backup back then, or to run errands, but nothing more than that).

The second :masks requirement on Grow means you cannot do it without a high :masks in your hand. Not do the Tots need these high :masks for Flay trigger, but you may simply never see one in your hand. It's random, after all.

I know what you're saying but as Necro said - shitty luck. Hamelin can't take youngs and he has no beat stick models so it's the only real way to try it.

[Q'iq'el]

I know what you're saying but as Necro said - shitty luck. Hamelin can't take youngs and he has no beat stick models so it's the only real way to try it.

Clearly the design is for him not to have beat stick models then. Terror Tots are very poor way to substitute for that and I simply think it is not worth it.

There are only 6 cards in the Deck that allow a Tot to Grow (including Red Joker) on its own. It is not bad luck if you don't get them when you need them. It is to be expected.

Are there any models Hamelin can take that increase Ca or, even better, add :masks to Ca? If you can do that, then perhaps.

[magicpockets]

Clearly the design is for him not to have beat stick models then. Terror Tots are very poor way to substitute for that and I simply think it is not worth it.

There are only 6 cards in the Deck that allow a Tot to Grow (including Red Joker) on its own. It is not bad luck if you don't get them when you need them. It is to be expected.

Are there any models Hamelin can take that increase Ca or, even better, add :masks to Ca? If you can do that, then perhaps.

None at all, closest you'll get is taking a student of conflict to give it fast (but that's pointless). Having said that I've grown my tot by turn two every game I've played it so I stand by this - 3ss for a young is absolutely worth the effort imo.

[Necromorph]

Actually....I did get counters off the rats, and I didn't really move up until turn 3...just some small details that I didn't bother correcting in my writeup, lol.

Yeah...it just took too long for the tots to grow, and then I just had too much to do in 3 turns and that lead to mistakes.

@Q

What would you take in a slaughter then? Oh yeah, I'm gonna take a rat swarm so that he can use cassandra and the duet to get 40kp's in a turn with their blast/pulse capability. There really isn't anything else that is worth it besides tots. All masters have a "tough" strategy or two, but slaughter is probably a 95% chance at an auto-lose for Hamelin if you're going up against someone reasonably experienced. If you can get the Youngs up early (though yes you are hoping for the right cards) then it can work quite well. If I had just left them and tried to flank around the side with them while Hamelin powered up ss it may have been...better.

The other factor was Jack Daw. He is awesome against Hamelin. Hamelin already has a tough time dealing with him due to the nature of his crew, but in a slaughter it's damn hard. The only way I can think of to deal with him would be to smack him with Hamelin to give him a blight counter, and then spam BD on him. Not sure if that would work but it seems like a decent way to drain their hand.

[Necromorph]

Actually....I did grow off the rats, and I didn't really move up until turn 3...just some small details that I didn't bother correcting in my writeup, lol.

Yeah...it just took too long for the tots to grow, and then I just had too much to do in 3 turns and that lead to mistakes.

@Q

What would you take in a slaughter then? Oh yeah, I'm gonna take a rat swarm so that he can use cassandra and the duet to get 40kp's in a turn with their blast/pulse capability. There really isn't anything else that is worth it besides tots. All masters have a "tough" strategy or two, but slaughter is probably a 95% chance at an auto-lose for Hamelin if you're going up against someone reasonably experienced. If you can get the Youngs up early (though yes you are hoping for the right cards) then it can work quite well. If I had just left them and tried to flank around the side with them while Hamelin powered up ss it may have been...better.

The other factor was Jack Daw. He is awesome against Hamelin. Hamelin already has a tough time dealing with him due to the nature of his crew, but in a slaughter it's damn hard. The only way I can think of to deal with him would be to smack him with Hamelin to give him a blight counter, and then spam BD on him. Not sure if that would work but it seems like a decent way to drain their hand.

[Drake]

That Duet should have been well and trule dead turn 2! If the duet is left in range of Hamelin, betwen Insig, can only attack Hamelin and Severe damage in melee from Hamelin, and Irresistable Lure, the Duet should have been toast.

[Odin1981]

Not really the only time the duet is at risk is when you lose init but don't have a dove within 3", or as a player you have a brainfart and somehow decide to leave them less than 10" away from hamelin.

The ++ ability for hamelin is only on the next action and if you have a dove within 3" your resist is wp6+, ss+ for spells total. If it is against his melee attack assuming you def stance your 7+++ ss+ so the only way he is taking you down reliably is if you leave the duet in melee range and hamelin activates before the duet.

There was only one turn where I left the duet like that and fortuanatly he black jokered his init flip. Every other turn I would activate the duet before, and make sure when I was wrapping up their activation making sure I was around 12-18" away.

Also one thing I wouldn't be suprised that alot of people make is cheating often against hamelin. Why would you want him to draw cards especially if he doesn't have a great hand. The only situations I choose to where on key resist/defense flips or damage flips that would kill important models.

Also I had gotten advice on using Jack Daw from the hamelin player at the other store I go to and I have to say that model is a beast against hamelin. The only way any player would be endanger of losing him is if you were absolutley surrounded by stolen, totem, catchers, hamelin, and nix due to the absolute lack of models that actual have 2 ap to spend per turn or damaging spells (sorry to say spam casting hamelin's bleed spell is bad unless the person using daw was a moron and emptied their hand and saving 3/7 cards isn't hard when you draw seven generally there our 3 low cards (5 or lower).

[Odin1981]

Also the only insig attack hamelin spell (hindsight is always 20/20) for the duet there is a way around it. The 2'' nonshowgirl pulse for 2 wounds doesn't target so its not any type of attack and all you would have to do is continue running around then go after rats/stolen grouped up and cast said spell to rack up kp's for slaughter.

I will admit I didn't really specify in the report but outside of turn 6 which we stopped at the duet was just about never within 12" of hamelin so he had to waste ap getting to the duet and never had his full 3 ap outside of turn two to target them/it.

[Necromorph]

TBH, though, Odin, that Duet should have been dead pretty early. I never flipped well when trying to damage it, and you did always manage an opportune amount of healing with damage prevention / ss healing flips. If any of those flips had gone the other direction it would have been dead turn 3-4. Not to say that that's autowin, but Hamelin with 20ss should be able to kill just about anything, even a duet. As you stated, you knew I had a shit hand, so you didn't cheat very often because you knew I couldn't, and (I also have a witness for this) there were 2 turns where I flipped a solid 1/3 of my deck and got 1 flip of 10 and everything else was single digits (astronomically bad luck).

I would definitely rematch at some point. Again, Odin is a bit more experienced than me, but factors beyond your control could have been a bit more "even" I'd say it would be a pretty close game and not some awkward auto-win, even if I still lost at least I could say it was a "good competitive game".

[Drake]

Also, Hamlin can Summon a stolen, then sacrifice it to put your Wp down by 2 before hitting you with one of his Insig attacks, then it would be your Wp 4 + flip with +ss flip, v Hamelin's 7 stat with ss, so if he cheats in a 12/13 for the attack you are hard pushed to beat him, and he can move up with his Fast to get in range to hit you with that.

I would have to say Necromorph with no high cards in his hands was always playing at a big disadvantage, high cards to cheat in damage and cast make a BIG difference. And remember Irresistible Lure can draw in your doves, away from Coryphee before he goes in for the kill against it, if he can get the inititiative next turn and you have no does nearby, Duet is most likely dead.

But yeah orcestral Crescendo is great way of getting round being Insig, I used that approach first time I got hit buy insig, just gotta make sure you are away from hamelin, and using Crescendo, unless you get the 4" push from the trigger, will very much slow the Duet down and leave it vulnerable to counter next turn...so gotta be careful with that option.

[Necromorph]

@ Drake

Yeah that Happened turn 3 I believe. I Lured in 2 doves, his Duet and a Mannequin, but failed to do damage to the doves. Then I won Initiative turn 4 so I unloaded on the Duet, but he had 2 doves sitting there to burn as SS and ofc his ss flips were higher than mine both times.

[Drake]

Necromorph, Hamelin is Fast, could you not whack the Doves first and then get 1 hit on Coryphee in Melee after doves dead? or if you have ss left for Hamelin defence/prevent Duet disengaging or atleast forcing ss burning, you could just send in the rats to kill the doves so Duet has no mobile ss to use. Even if Colette makes another one that turn, it has to be in range and that is only 1 ss for defence.

Even after it has activated and has Use Soulstones, bear in mind it has been moving and good chance it is away from Doves...so hit it with attack as noted above, and your on 3 point advantage and he most likely does not have + flip on ss, so your much more likely to pull it off.

Its what I have to be wary of when playing Magic and his Hamelin. keeping Duet either well out of the way (not easy after it has been made insig) and keeping Doves nearby both before and after activation if I cant get well away from Hamelin before he activates/at the end of the turn.

As great as Duet's are, they dont have the damage output to deal with masters, especially if Masters have ss on them. They are asking to be caught out and killed if they move into melee with Master, especially melee/gunfighter ones with high damage output!

[kizzle]

He necro get better cards! Every game man you seem to get the short stick on those crucial turns, you can use my deck if u want just plan on flipping a black joker once a turn on a damage flips haha.

But im surprised you took that list for a trial run, seems the nephs took away from what you normally do best with hamelin, but i feel ya on the slaughter thats alot of easy kill points with the stolen and rats, just an uphill battle from the start.

But Daves collette crew is brutal i was lucky enough to play it without jd and it still didnt fair well. Too bad i had work or else i would have gotten to see the game.

[Necromorph]

@ Drake

I was already engaged with the Duet, but I knew he was going to come in and try to bomb my stolen / any rats I hadn't sacrificed with the Doves. So I did Ir. Lure and pulled them all in...the flips just didn't kill any of the Doves. I had maybe 1 decent card in my hand and I knew I needed it to be able to kill the Duet, but then I was already screwed as I knew he was going to use them as ss, I just hoped he would flip low for extra flip they provided...but he didn't. It was a really sticky situation and there was nothing I could really do about it.

Also, he was making it a point to pick off my stolen, despite the debuff they throw out, so I needed to use some AP to keep a couple around to keep Hamelin up, knowing JD was near. Honestly, I would have much rather dealt with Cassandra than JD, but w/e, I can see why Odin used him as he is a huge detriment to Hamelin.

All in all, the main reason I rarely win competitve games in any game system usually comes down to that 1 game where I know it's gonna be tough, and then my dice/cards just go to shit...I've come to accept it as a fact, but it's still really frustrating...and I have enough witnesses to prove it, as Kizzle said, so I don't wan't anyone to think that I'm just whining about it or making excuses. My dice/cards never come through in those "clutch" moments of play. Yes, in this game there were other factors where I did something dumb due to my unfamiliar list, or Odin simply outplayed me, but it is a pain in the ass, when you know your hand/deck are going to be sub-par when you need them.

[Odin1981]

Yeah necro had I gotten in a practice game I might have felt comfortable enough using cassandra but I mainly didn't take her due to her wp being 5 which made her a target for a severe pipe trigger into a free obey for you. Jack Daw just seemed more effective considering his base wp is 7.

Drake that was the main reason I took Jack. His terrifing gibs the harmless check and with a wp of 7 the wp-13 simple duel isn't hard to pass and his 12" ranged suppresed in my mind made him excellant choice to take gibbing stolen to threaten a illusionist react 3x magician duel gib of hamelin after he activated with placement of Jack severing hamelin but outside of colette.

Every turn in our game from 3+ on he was at risk off killing the duet but not having ap to make a stolen to prevent colette raping him in return and making everything insig for him thus making it impossible to complete his strategy.