Malifaux Moving Forward

[Kaine]

I was talking to a few players recently about what Malifaux will hold in the future. The general view seems to be that Malifaux wont scale well to large games, i.e. Malifaux doesnt seem to be going the Warmachine/Hordes approach of moving from Skirmish to battle system.

That leaves an issue, as more and more books come out, we'll have a larger and large pool of masters to work with, making the game more difficult for new players to enter.

Malifaux is heavily story driven, some one option would off course be to kill off Masters, this off course might upset people who had invested alot of time in crew.

One idea i had that i though worth sharing was the idea of "Era's".

Era's would a be concept of playing your game in a particular part of the Malifaux story time line, depending on where the game was set would limit the Masters available.

For example

Era 1 - Book 1 Masters

Era 2 - Book 2 + Book 1 Masters

Era 3 - Book 3 + Book 2 + some book 1 masters (others might have died or evolved)

Era 4 -Book 4 + Book 3 + some of book 2 (etc)

Lets take Perdita as an example.

Perdita is pretty much the same in book1+2 so she would be fine in both era 1+2, but does she die in book 3 ? (who knows), lets assume she does, lets assume she died at the end of book 2, that would make her available in only era 1+2.

Now, Santiago enraged at her death might become a master in book3, that would make Santiago (minion) available in era 1+2 and Santiago (master) in era 3, etc.

Similarly, Hamelin.

Era 1 - Hamelin (minion)

Era 2 - Hamelin (master)

etc

The idea would be you would have a matrix of master vr era, e.g.

Model Era1 Era2 Era3

Hamelin Yes No No

Hamelin(M) No Yes Yes

This concept would also fit in well with the rumoured Avatar forms of masters.

When you come to choose the game you play, it could even be that some of games you play might have random era's limiting which of your crew can be hired.

Off course if both players agreed you could always play an open era, any vr any game.

Tournaments would probably need to specify an Era, for example and Era3+4 Tournament.

This is just an idea, and would need alot of fleshing out but thought i'd post it up.

[Buhallin]

While the idea seems cool, we have a solid example of how it works: badly.

Flames of War does this with their Early/Mid/Late War splits. It's very appropriate for them to do, and necessary due to the progress which was made in available weapons technology and resources during the war, but it makes a pain for gaming. I like Mid War, so that's what I collect. Someone at our store gets into it, and likes D-Day, so they collect Late War, and we can't play each other. Someone starts a campaign and decides it would be cool to move from Mid to Late, and everyone's faced with half their models being useless.

I wouldn't want to see this dynamic in Malifaux. It's a necessary evil for FoW due to the historical nature, but I don't think there's any real need for it in Malifaux, at least not anything that outweighs the problems it creates.

[(TV)]

As someone who also has experienced the FOW splits, I'd like to see it avoided simply due to this fiction/fantasy setting. I mean I don't think it's SUPER crucial to have "historical accuracy" in this sort of game/setting. What they COULD do is say that a name is unique, so if there are 2 "candy" models, only one may be in play per player at the same time.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Which is what they did with hamelin

[MadArcanist]

I personally like the idea of having a very large pool to draw from, it gives you more choices, and those choices make for interesting games which is what this is about. WM and Hordes still suffer from it being to expensive to get into, and that is what is gonna be the draw for everyone that wants to get into the game, and with a big pool they can pick and choose who they want to play, regardless of how big it gets, it won't be overwhelming, plus as a guild player I scale very well into very big games (Lots of character models that fit well together)

I site a personal example being MtG. if you rotate figures then your gonna find models obsolete and that will tick more people off then you'll be helping. I know its odd to reference a tcg to a minis game but it sounds like a very similar concept.

Where it stands now you have two options while playing, staying faction based or pulling off a multi-faction where you only collect a couple masters from each faction and focus on that.

[Justin]

I personally like the idea of having a very large pool to draw from, it gives you more choices, and those choices make for interesting games which is what this is about. WM and Hordes still suffer from it being to expensive to get into, and that is what is gonna be the draw for everyone that wants to get into the game, and with a big pool they can pick and choose who they want to play, regardless of how big it gets, it won't be overwhelming, plus as a guild player I scale very well into very big games (Lots of character models that fit well together)

I site a personal example being MtG. if you rotate figures then your gonna find models obsolete and that will tick more people off then you'll be helping. I know its odd to reference a tcg to a minis game but it sounds like a very similar concept.

Where it stands now you have two options while playing, staying faction based or pulling off a multi-faction where you only collect a couple masters from each faction and focus on that.

Yeah, it very much reminds me of a CCG as well. And it simply inevitably leads to models/cards being phased out.

In Magic that's actually acceptable. As most of the cards are 30 cent commons. But in a mini game each model is worth at least 6 dollars, was bought specifically, and people spent not only their money but also time painting and assembling. Phase out is not an option.

That said, the OP presents a valid problem: the larger the model pool, the more complex and generally overwhelming the game is to new players, and it reaches a point where you have a very committed player base, but very little influx of new blood. Over time the base will erode, and the game will die. So, how do you prevent this?

Good question!

[CloudFang]

well in my opinion... and ive only played a couple of games so far.... i believe one of the strongest things going for the game at least play wise is the choose factions.. then get strategies and then pick crews! with this in mind i could easily see 15+ masters a faction with lots of cool fluffy characters and ideas to choose from... also the nice but small cross faction moves like kirai can grab spirits regardless and marcus can use beasts of any type is great...

a can also see introduction of a new faction.

more strategies would be great along with more interesting and usable terrain, which is also one of the reasons this game is great.. as long as the crews stay somewhat small and games remain in the 35ss range i think the game will be just as inviting to new comers only with more initial sets to choose from.? and veterans will have a lot to think about when choosing crews...

in the end it omes down to great game development and considering these guys are already making it a point to come up with great new ways to approach minis gaming i think they can continue and will probably pave their own way... at least i can hope so.

just my thoughts.

[Justin]

i think the game will be just as inviting to new comers only with more initial sets to choose from.? and veterans will have a lot to think about when choosing crews...

Not necessarily.

Too many crews to choose from can lead to a sort of analysis paralysis when getting into the game; there's so much to look through to find what they would like the best, they just give up and move on to another game. After all, they're not invested in it. Also they don't know if there is any "codex creep" going on (i.e. newer models are simply better than old ones). And, whether it's a problem with the game or not, with enough models out there SOME will just be crap (by sheer weight of numbers) and who wants to risk picking that crew up? Or if you do, who wants to keep playing?

Also, knowing your opponent's crew is key. And with so many crews out there, you could easily find yourself learning a new one every game. So after your first five or six games are spent reading stat cards, who wants to keep playing? Again, keeping in mind the person isn't very invested.

I'm not criticizing wyrd at all, simply speaking to the nature of mini games in general. The larger the model selection (particularly in a game where the abilities of models vary widely) the more difficult the game is to get into.

It's a problem I have no solution for.

[tadaka]

I would realy like to see 2 things on this.

First to deal with a huge range of models I would like to see all models from here out be special forces. This would let you add options and not have to worry AS much about how every model in the game interacts. Basicly that gives book 1 and 2 as mostly core models for the given factions. Because you could only hire from one group of special forces at a time it would cut down some on model bloat.

Second I would like to see a year/qtr world wide story go on. They release a set of play rules that change up. Just for example

The road back.

As the masters return from the falling tower an assassin is hired from the Gov to pick one off. The next time you play a game with one of the masters who returned from the tower (need to provide offical list here -1 dead lady j) in a henchman organised tournamant. The winning faction gets a point. The faction with the most points gets a special new model or an updated model in the next update to represent the assassin. This could also be how players help to decide what gets a new nightmare version. They could also toss in other things for points to get more players involved art contest or some thing.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Tadaka interesting idea. As for problems with huge master counts keep in mind this game is faction based so it is likely the new player only needs to pick a faction than a master. It is likely as time goes on faction books will come out. Format of new books can stay the same, but faction books may become necessary to reduce having to flip through 3-5 books to find your crew selection.

Also there is not a lot of importance in knowing your opponent's crew because you can always ask to read their crew cards before a game even in a tourney this will take up 5-10 mins and as you get use to the game it will be easier to see what that crews synergy is.

As long as weird can keep a core player group there will always be a growth of new players.

[Da Big Baws]

Not necessarily.

Too many crews to choose from can lead to a sort of analysis paralysis when getting into the game; there's so much to look through to find what they would like the best, they just give up and move on to another game. After all, they're not invested in it. Also they don't know if there is any "codex creep" going on (i.e. newer models are simply better than old ones). And, whether it's a problem with the game or not, with enough models out there SOME will just be crap (by sheer weight of numbers) and who wants to risk picking that crew up? Or if you do, who wants to keep playing?

Also, knowing your opponent's crew is key. And with so many crews out there, you could easily find yourself learning a new one every game. So after your first five or six games are spent reading stat cards, who wants to keep playing? Again, keeping in mind the person isn't very invested.

I'm not criticizing wyrd at all, simply speaking to the nature of mini games in general. The larger the model selection (particularly in a game where the abilities of models vary widely) the more difficult the game is to get into.

It's a problem I have no solution for.

Hello. I am a possible future player and I think that is going to be a problem. To start out with, I see there are way to many Boxed sets and picking one will require research and much thought. Unlike other Skirmish games, like Warmachine or Anima Tactics, which have 4 or less each, the starting point via Boxed sets is a large pool for this game.

In all honesty, I don't have an idea to which box I would start with if wanted to start playing Malifaux.

[Hookers]

its not a problem at all if everything is balanced. even with a huge selection, if you don't have to worry at all about power level, then picking out a crew is easy, like a kid in a candy store ("I want DAT one!" :love:).

obviously that is what you would hope to achieve, the problem is that the further you get from rock, paper, scissors, the harder it is to balance. you also have to worry about coming out with super scissors that makes scissors irrelevant, or dull scissors that is already irrelevant before it even comes out.

there's also two aspects: competitive play and hobbying. only competitive play is effected by balance. as far as the hobby is concerned the more models the better.

[Chucklemonkey]

Hello. I am a possible future player and I think that is going to be a problem. To start out with, I see there are way to many Boxed sets and picking one will require research and much thought. Unlike other Skirmish games, like Warmachine or Anima Tactics, which have 4 or less each, the starting point via Boxed sets is a large pool for this game.

In all honesty, I don't have an idea to which box I would start with if wanted to start playing Malifaux.

Whilst I see your point I can't fully agree with it. As a very occasional and recent player of warmachine I was lucky to get a special deal on the box set I wanted and the core rules, then I figured out which caster I wanted to use and the starter box became next to useless due to playstyle etc. It has actually slowed my interest in the Game as I need to buy an entire list separately.

As such I definitely think Wyrd have it right in terms of the starter boxes but can also see your point on selection. I do like tadakas thoughts of limiting new masters and focusing expansion on Henchmen and special forces.

I don't have a Henchman crew yet, are the box sets differentiated so newer players know they are not fully fledged masters?

[Hookers]

I don't have a Henchman crew yet, are the box sets differentiated so newer players know they are not fully fledged masters?

not really no. but for all intents and purposes they play like fully fledged masters. their real drawback is in crew selection, which is irrelevant when you are playing with every model that you own anyways because it all came in the same box.