New player got some questions

[Zahmet]

Hello all!

I just started to play this game this weekend and me and my friend might still do some misstakes or rule misses, ill do another post about rules we wounder about but now onto my real problem.

How do I deal with Stitched Together?

I've picked up Rasputina and Colette starters and have the duet + doves for Colette also, but I have such a hard time with the Stiched Together, they do 3/4/7 dmg from 6 range, with 7 wounds, and even if I kill them they still get to act, and if they have acted already they get to reactivate.

Sure I can win the wp duels and thus make my opponent take the damage instead, but the problem is that they have 6wp, and they win if we get the same, so he always have a upperhand. Most of the times he simply wins the duels and do atleast 3 damage, sometimes when im not even close and cant cheat then he can cheat in a 7dmg and just kill something.

The problem here is that they "hit" so very very hard and they can do it twice a turn, and if I start spend soulstone to save all my guys, vs 2 stitched I need to pump out about 2-4 soulstones to live, since when I start to cheat fate he just does the same and I still get that big attack on me.

Sure Collecte helps pump up the wp, but the showgirls only have around 4 base, so if he wins init then he can kill them before they can do the wpdance.

I do know that I do many playmisstakes on the whole, and I don't play my showgirls very good yet, only played 2 games with them. But still we both agree that the stiched are very strong and we don't really see thier weakness, sure they can take the dmg themself but as stated even if they would die they dont die right away they get another action, so they will drain my controlcards and soulshards very fast.

[Scurry]

one way to stop them is for the coryphee to use blinding on them, cheat high and use a soulstone if needed for a neutral flip then cheat in a severe, that paralyzes them so they can't do anything on their activation

to get it off easier you can also use the coryphees (0) sublime performance to get masks to cb and hit them triggering hypnotic movements so they are at a negative to resist flips, then use blinding

[NeverEnding]

So I am going to assume that your friend is playing The Dreamer. I dont own the Colette box but I have been playing Rasputina for a while, If you go at it with Rasp the best thing is to use "Rasp Tactics". Point and Shoot. If you put her in a crew with a Silent One you can get a max range of 19 inches and if you Ice Mirror through her your only at a -1 Ca. Even if they dont die before they are close they will be crippled enough to handle (Gamin Bomb!)

[Zahmet]

@Scurry

I have to check up on that, sounds solid, but if I don't seem to recall that the sublime performace was hard to cast, and I guess I need to cheat that also.

@NeverEnding

Yes, he is playing The Dreamer the first game we had I played Rasp and then i Pointed and Shot and it worked fine I won the game (was very close) but after that I wanted to test Colette and he just ate my Performers/Cassandra when i tried that, then when I tried the duet, before I could get my duet to dance together one was already dead (yes I did misstake of not useing a bird I had close to prevent the dmg and I'm a total new player makeing misstakes).

But even after the horrible start I just couldn't handle them at all. They do tons of damage and they make me discard cards to the 0 cost action, and its often that I either discard a card and he gets to draw 2 cards or I have to cheat (and that is more or less like discarding, but I need to discard high) if I want him to not draw cards like mad.

So he gets many cards I go low on cards and he just WP duels me to death.

I could point out that we played on a 36x36 totaly open board, with no terrain at all, we had no objectives or anything we just wanted to bash each other in this new shiny game. I do realise that maybe the Dreamer or LCB and his crew might be better than the fast dancers and that my crew might be better once we get some terrain and some objectives, but still despite this I want to have a minor chance todo something, right now I get completely destroyed.

Thanks for your answers.

I shall try come back with more questions, btw. about rule question shall I post that somewhere else? or does it work to post it here?

[Scurry]

sublime performance requires an 8 of any suit to cast, not too hard

[Zahmet]

Guess I need to cheat fate more

[Scurry]

remember colette can ditch a soulstone to draw 2 cards if ur hand is running low

[Zahmet]

Would you recommend going with:

Coryphee 7

Coryphee 7

Cassandra 9

= 23 ss (so +2 start)

for a 25 crew?

And simply play a bunch of games to get the hang of it?

I've been reading the Tactica for Colette and I realise some things that I havn't been useing or things I've done wrong.

Normaly I learn best from simply getting beaten a couple of times and try to learn from my misstakes.

the 2/3/4 dmg from the dancers feels very low, but I understand that I must use my spells better and use my doves a lot more.

[LoboStele]

I've been playing Colette since August, and she was the only Master I played all fall (was in a League where we had to stick to one Master). So I've got quite a few games under my belt with her. In all of those games, the Dreamer has ALWAYS the toughest for me to beat. I think I only beat him once or twice. The Showgirls are just fairly squishy pieces, and Chompy can kill them very easily. The Stitched were also fairly annoying as well, though I tend to see less of them once the actual cards came out and the rule was clarified against burying a Stitched after Does not Die kicks in.

Anyways, I found that one of the best way for dealing with Stitched Together was using Disappearing Act. I would activate either the Coryphee's or Cassandra, and then use Companion to activate Colette along with them. The other piece would kill the Stitched (not too difficult to do), and then Colette would pop in and use Disappearing Act to bury the Stitched. Doesn't always work since the Dreamer can unbury them again, but if you play it right, the Stitched comes back into play from Disappearing Act during the Start Closing Phase, and then "Does not Die!" causes them to be sacrificed during the Resolve Effects Step next. So, you can keep them from Reactivating that way sometimes.

The other thing is....ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS combine your Coryphee's into the Duet. It isn't worth leaving them in their single forms, unless you absolutely need it for some sort of objective (and even then, Escape and Survive strategy is the only one that I can think of where I'd do this). They are just too weak in their individual forms, and Chompy or most of his crew can kill them in 1 hit with them having only 4 Wds.

And definitely keep at least 1 dove near the Coryphees at all times, so that if you lose init, they still have a Soulstone they can burn if necessary.

[Buhallin]

I could point out that we played on a 36x36 totaly open board, with no terrain at all, we had no objectives or anything we just wanted to bash each other in this new shiny game. I do realise that maybe the Dreamer or LCB and his crew might be better than the fast dancers and that my crew might be better once we get some terrain and some objectives, but still despite this I want to have a minor chance todo something, right now I get completely destroyed.

This is a problem.

Malifaux as a game is designed and balanced around having both Strategies and Schemes and a lot of terrain. It's pretty unique among wargames in this - they're so central you could as easily ask for advice by saying "We aren't using spells yet and Raspy keeps losing, help!" Especially with Colette and her crew... They rely a lot on speed and position, rather than standup bashing. So you might as well be playing the no-spells game with Rasputina, because it puts them at that big a disadvantage.

If you're comfortable with the basic rules, I'd introduce strategies at the very least. Many strategies are positional in nature, and you'll find the speed and movement trickery Colette can do will serve you well. Terrain matters with this a lot too, letting you pull models out of position to hit you, or striking and fading back behind cover with things like Sword Dance.

So I know I'm kinda going against what you were asking, but it's important to realize that models in Malifaux are balanced with the expectation of strategies and schemes, rather than just standup fights, and adjust your expectations accordingly if you're playing with a limited ruleset.

[Zahmet]

[url=http://wyrd-games.net/forum/member.php?u=3321]@Buhallin

That's more or less what I was expecting that's why I put it up here also. I could see how her units could move around a lot and how that could be a good thing. Me and my friend just wanted to test out the system get a feeling for the rules and such.

We are going to look into the whole terrain, scheams and similar things soon, we just need to read up on it, at first glance it looks complicated or at least like it would take time and such. But we will work on that.

Thanks for all the help.

[Buhallin]

<nod> I certainly understand - I certainly wasn't saying you were doing it wrong, when I run demos I don't mess with strategies or schemes, although I do have a lot of pretty terrain Just appreciate what it does to the balance of certain crews.

I always make a point of discussing strategies during the demo, though. Even beyond being important to game balance, I think it's one of the coolest aspects of Malifaux. I've gotten very tired of "I line up, you line up, we rush at each other and roll dice until someone falls down" style of game.

[magicpockets]

if you want to take care of Stitched without tying up your high ss models use doves (hired or summoned) with Magicians Dual - works quite well against me when our club's Collette player plays my NB list

[Adran]

Anyways, I found that one of the best way for dealing with Stitched Together was using Disappearing Act. I would activate either the Coryphee's or Cassandra, and then use Companion to activate Colette along with them. The other piece would kill the Stitched (not too difficult to do), and then Colette would pop in and use Disappearing Act to bury the Stitched. Doesn't always work since the Dreamer can unbury them again, but if you play it right, the Stitched comes back into play from Disappearing Act during the Start Closing Phase, and then "Does not Die!" causes them to be sacrificed during the Resolve Effects Step next. So, you can keep them from Reactivating that way sometimes.

This doesn't work. once does not die has gone on, the stiched can not be buried.

Disappearing act on them before they have been killed, or activated can be useful, as it will disrupt the dreamers turn plans. And you can also try for the manniquin replacement trigger.

Paralyse the stiched with performers can work, or rush out early to kill them with a duet or Cassandra to limit what they can do back to you.

Lack of Terrain is going to hurt you, it gives them a huge line of sight.

Show girls are great at getting to the right place at the right time, but are not great at putting out a huge amount of damage.

[LoboStele]

Oh duh....my bad. I fogot that I had formulated said trick before the cards came out. Been a while since I've had a Colette vs. Chompy matchup. Thanks for the reminder. I guess you could try for the Mannequin Replacement trigger. That should work still. But if you don't get the triple :tomes the spell would fizzle, haha.

[Zahmet]

I have a question about the duet but also general switching of models.

If I have a duet, can I then use all of its actions but one, split it up to two Cory and then later in the round activate them one at a time to get many actions out of them?

I recall reading something about that they remeber things like if you have granted then Use Soulstone that it will last when you merge them et.c. is this true for actions also or can you do as I wrote to get many actions.

The same question about The Dreamer and LCB, can the dreamer fly over my army cast a spell then turn to LCB and after I have activated one figure can he then activate LCB?

How many actions does something get when they come back from being buried? The Dreamer can get his nightmares into play, do they get their full 2 actions? Same with Colette's spell, when they come back in the have their normal 2 actions right?

I bet I can find these in the rulebook if I look very close, but as I said I'm a very new player so any help would be nice.

[Scurry]

when you unbury something it has all of its remaining actions, and since colette unburies them at the closing phase they have (normally) 2 actions when they activate next turn.

lord chompy activates immediatley after the activating model that brought him out finishes and since the dreamer is no longer on the board his activation has finished so you wouldn't get an activation. but if the dreamer used 2 general ap chompy can only use 1 general ap and things like melee master

duet i believe the ap of the placed models is shared between them from the remaining ap from the duet so if you used all of its ap then they couldnt do anything

[Zahmet]

Ok, so let me get this straight The Dreamer and the Duet share AP with the other versions (LCB and the dancers).

If you unbury a model that has been out of play from the start (for the Dreamer) they get to use all their AP.

A Summoned model gets slowed when summoned.

Does that sum it up?

Another question then I heard that if you use a spell that last until the end of the turn and then you bury then the effect becomes permanent since the end of turn step never happened.

Is this true?

Example, Stitched Together uses the aura that gives obstruction, and then the Dreamer buries him, he comes back with the help of the Dreamer next turn and then he has that aura permanent?

Sounds like silly use of the rules, but is this true?

[Adran]

Ok, so let me get this straight 1The Dreamer and the Duet share AP with the other versions (LCB and the dancers).

2If you unbury a model that has been out of play from the start (for the Dreamer) they get to use all their AP.

3A Summoned model gets slowed when summoned.

Does that sum it up?

Another question then I heard that if you use a spell that last until the end of the turn and then you bury then the effect becomes permanent since the end of turn step never happened.

4Is this true?

Example, Stitched Together uses the aura that gives obstruction, and then the Dreamer buries him, he comes back with the help of the Dreamer next turn and then he has that aura permanent?

Sounds like silly use of the rules, but is this true?

Added numbers to aid with the answers

1 No Lord chompybits and the dreamer have a special rule that between the two of them they can do no more than 3 actions, but each generates 2 action points when activated.

When something is replaced such as the corephyee replaced by a duet, the replacing model has the remaining action points of the model it replaced. If you replaced two dancers with the duet, then it will also gfet its fast action point.

2 Yes, when you activate a model it generates 2 AP

3 Yes, When you activate a model on the turn it was summoned, it gains slow

4 Its not perminent. The effect will go away the next time it is present for an end of turn. But if you bury the model so it isn't there for an wend of turn you can keep the effcet going longer.

[LoboStele]

When something is replaced such as the corephyee replaced by a duet, the replacing model has the remaining action points of the model it replaced. If you replaced two dancers with the duet, then it will also gfet its fast action point.

I'm not sure what you're getting at there, but the individual Coryphee's would never get the Fast AP. When the Duet activates, it would have 3 AP total due to Fast. It has to spend 1 AP to Dance Apart. It would have 2 AP left. So, each of the individual Coryphee would get 2 AP.

If the Duet first did a Walk Action, and then did Dance Apart, it would only have 1 AP left at that point, and then the individual Coryphees.

And with the Dreamer, the easiest way to remember it is that LCB activates immediately after he's unburied (unless he had already activated previously during this turn), and The Dreamer and LCB can never use more than 3 AP total between them. They are actually a lot easier to remember how they work than the Coryphees are, LOL.

[Adran]

I was trying to say when you start with two dancers and end with 1 duet. The Duet gets an extra action point for fast even on the turn it appears.