Brawling with Levi, opinions?

[Necromorph]

So some of the people in my gaming group are looking into doing some brawls for fun soon, so far many of my friends only own 1 crew as they've only been into the game a couple of months. I have 3 crews and a bit more time in the game than them, but the problem is I don't have any compatible crews for brawls. I will be getting Collodi when he comes out, but that's some time away, and I don't need to do a brawl to get Collodi into Levi's crew.

I have Levi and Hamelin (and Von Schill, who isn't compatible), and while they can brawl it up together, they are limited to Alyce, Nix, Canine Remains, and Stolen......not a very diverse list, and I think it would get boring rather quickly.

I've been looking into either Ramos or Hoffman as possible brawl partners for Levi (I could use Nico but we have a Nico player and I don't want to tread on his turf, so to speak).

Does anyone have any advice on which of the two would be better to pair Levi with, or any experiences Brawling with Levi in general?

[Elazar]

You can't partner Levi with Nicodem in a brawl as Nicodem isn't Undead or a Construct. I've never actually used Levi in a brawl yet but there strikes me as being a fair bit of compatibility with either of the Scavenger Masters. With Ramos you also get the choice for Rusty Alyce on whether she uses Levi's or Ramos' Ca and also have a greater chance to be within 3" of either Master for Something to Live For.

The Hoff looks potentially very interesting and I'd love to try him in a brawl with Levi. Maintain Machines would allow for the Desolation Engine to ignore Unstable creation if he stays near it, Assimilate means he could copy Industrial Nightmare from it for an extra Pulse in the Closing Phase and Machine Puppet would be good for a few extra strikes or indeed Override Edict for Reactivating the Desolation Engine instead of having to use Rusty Alyce's Burn Out etc. All just theory though as I haven't tried but I'm keen to see suggestions from people that have for if/when I use Levi in a brawl in the future!

[infernosolarc]

I second Hoffman. That is my plan, assuming I ever get to wanting to Brawl.

Maintain Machines on Hoffman and the Assistant should let you ignore Hobbled on two of your SPA's first turn. 20" of movement and still able to make a Desolation Engine with the 4th guys first general AP. Yes please.

Also, using Machine Puppet can actually let your SPA's hit something for a change.

And, finally, a Guardian next to your Hollow Waif's can make it very difficult for an opponent to take them down. Making Leveticus even tougher to put down for good.

[Necromorph]

Yes, Hoffman is looking to be the more and more appealing choice. If only for the fact that you can still take a lot of constructs through Levi's hiring, and Hoffman can buff and support them very efficiently.

Ramos is still appealing to me for some reason, but if you used him with Levi, I would go for a pure summoning list with lots of SPA's and Spider Swarms. I would just have them flood the enemy and use the inevitably dropped scrap counters to make more models and keep a Desi on the table. In addition, Ramos can heal the constructs like Hoffman, and he can fill the role of support offensive caster with Electrical Fire (not the greatest spell, but it's solid).

Hoffman, however, can work with just about any constructs Levi brings to the table, though he lacks summoning and offensive capabilities. I'm not sure what I would run with him though, here's a couple silly little lists I came up with on the fly.

45ss (7ss Cache)

Hoffman - 4ss cache

Levi - 0ss

Alyce - 8ss

Guardian - 7ss

Modile Toolkit - 3ss

Ryle - 8ss

Mechanical Rider - 8ss

Hooded Rider - 8ss

45ss (6ss Cache)

Hoffman

Levi

Alyce - 8ss

Guardian - 7ss

Mobile Toolkit - 3ss

SPA x4 - 12ss

Ashes and Dust - 13ss

I keep taking a Guardian and a Toolkit for Hoffman is to keep him alive and casting happily, so he can wade up midfield to support the offensive constructs. In the first list, he would stick by Ryle, with Levi and Alyce supporting as a fire platform. The second list would work similarly, but would see more of a focus on the constructs, and less on ranged damage (perhaps a bit obvious, lol).

Any other fun list suggestions out there for either Master combo?

Edit: /sigh, Ignore the Toolkits in both lists, I'll have to think of something else to throw in.

Edited March 29, 2011 by Necromorph

[Elazar]

You can't take the Mobile Toolkit as Levi isn't allowed totems in his crew mind.

[Necromorph]

Damn, yeah, I just see "Construct" yay! Oh wait....goddamn you Levi!!!!!

[infernosolarc]

I thought that Leveticus just couldn't hire totems for himself.

He cannot hire a Totem.

Hoffman can.

Doesn't say that Crew's containing this Model may not Hire Totems, just that this Model cannot.

It is, unclear, and I really don't know what the official ruling on that is for Brawls with two Masters.

[Elazar]

Well it's not saying he can't connect a Totem it's saying he can't hire one. All hiring restrictions of both masters apply in a brawl so you couldn't hire the totem regardless of whether Hoffman normally could or not.

[LoboStele]

Ugh...that makes it tough if you can't get either the Toolkit or the Mechanical Attendant for Hoffman. I hadn't thought about that.

Still though....Hoff giving the Deso Engine extra attacks/activations could be pretty awesome.

[Necromorph]

Yeah, and because of that, Hoffman is really the only choice, as without a Toolkit, it would be too hard for Ramos to cast his :tomes:tomes spells and he would probably just slow you down.

[LoboStele]

Yeah, and because of that, Hoffman is really the only choice, as without a Toolkit, it would be too hard for Ramos to cast his :tomes:tomes spells and he would probably just slow you down.

Eh...it'd be no different than playing Book 1 Ramos. If you've got Alyce in there, you can typically pick up a few :tomes. Granted, I've had some games where I only end up being able to summon 1 extra Spider, but then you could also use Alyce's Burn Out spell on Ramos if necessary, to give him more activations, and more chances to randomly flip those :tomes.

[Ratty]

I have asked a few times whether Levi's rule should read

• Levi's Crew can't hire totems.
  
• Levi can't attach totems.
  

The rule currently doesn't make a great deal of sense as Levi does not hire his crew does and all other restrictions say Crew containing X can't hire Y.

I've never got an answer.

[Necromorph]

@ Lobo

Yeah, he would pretty much be the same as book 1, but you would be competing for suits with Levi as he's suited :tomes :crows . Granted you could suit Levi Tomes and use Crows to cast, but then you're using your high cards to cast spells, and have would deplete your supply of cards for cheating / defense. This may or may not be a huge issue (playtesting would be required I suppose), but since the Toolkit is an incredibly useful tool for Ramos, and you can't take it, it makes Hoffman look much more appealing.

@ Ratty

Yeah, it is a shame that you can't, and the rules seem to have obviously been written without brawls in mind (unless it was intentional, but why give a brawling crew such a detriment?). It would be nice if it said "Can't connect totems other than Hollow Waifs." That solves the possible Totem abuse with Levi without giving him crew needless complications/issues while brawling.