Death Marshals and the Plagued, good starting gangs?

[Angor]

Hi guys

A friend and I are concidering getting into Malifaux and were both looking at picking up a gang box each. We were hoping for a reasonably balanced out of the box game to play while we learn the rules and see if we will go deeper into the world of Malifaux.

My friend was thinking of the Death Martials because they are cool looking cowboys. Whats not to like.

I was thinking of playing the Plagued with Hamelin and the kids and the rats as I really love the Pied Piper folk tale and I like having swarms of things in games.

Are these going to be a good matchup? Out of the box is one side going to have a big advantage over the other?

Any advice would be great thanks

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Out of box I would say Hamelin is more likely to win than Lady J. But both are good solid starter box. It is just right now Hamelin is a very tough master to overcome. He has a lot of shenigans where a new player will have an incrediblely hard time to overcome. As long as Hamelin doesn't have a stolen in the box so does reduce his survivability.

Ortega's box set is cowboys too, and might stand a better chance box to box to Hamelin.

[Wodschow]

Out of box I would say Hamelin is more likely to win than Lady J. But both are good solid starter box. ...

Hamelin out of the box hardly works at all, he'll need many more Rats and some Ratcatchers.. :/

[Justin]

Hamelin out of the box hardly works at all, he'll need many more Rats and some Ratcatchers.. :/

Ditto this.

I would steer away from Hamelin if you want easy, beginner friendly crews.

On the other hand, Hamelin is cool...I'd still go for it.

[Angor]

I saw that someone was using Warhammer giant rats as backup Plagued rats, as I have done a Skaven army in the past I have quite a few going spare.

Maybe the matches might be a little more even as my friend is clearly a better gamer than me.

[Vondur]

As a beginner I'd highly recommend starting with someone other than Hamelin. He and his crew have a very strict play style and his ability card is so jam packed with text that it's even in a smaller font than most masters. =P

Due to his playstyle you will pretty much need rat catchers, which aren't included in his box. Which means you'll at least need to buy the Rising Powers book so you can proxy them.

For beginners I think Nicodem/Ramos/McMourning/Ortegas are all good starter boxes.

[Hookers]

Lady J yes, Hamelin no.

Hamelin is not really a beginning crew, not because his strategy is so complex that it can't be understood, but because he goes against how every other master plays and a lot of the core mechanics of the game, so he's not really a good master to learn with or to be able to transition to other masters from.

Also out of the box Lady J will destroy Hamelin. Without rat catchers his power is very limited, even if you proxy rats.

Against Lady J for a beginner i would recommend any of the book one masters except Leveticus (Ramos, Rasputina, Lillith, Pandora, Zoraida, McMourning, Seamus, and Viktorias. Nicodem, Marcus, and Som'er can do fine as well but will be a slight uphill battle against her in my opinion. I left out the other guild crews assuming you guys would want to play different factions.)

[Angor]

In the past I have played alot of Legends of the Old west and Gutshot aswell as collecting a bunch of models to use in Chaos in Caparthia so I am sure I could get two or more suitable figures for ratcatchers.

Is starting with Hamelin really a super bad idea? That is kind of worrying. I quite like the models and the children and rats vibe going on.

I was eying up Ramos but after reading his tactics I was put off and his apparent weaknesses didnt sound great.

I quite like the Bad dreams set, the Stitched together I could take or leave but the little kid and Lord chompy Bits look pretty awesome. And maybe using a giant evil teddy at some point might be fun.

For some reason I always tend to go straight for the most awkward or worse faction when starting a new game, I dont know why. Maybe because I like silliness in whatever I play or want something a bit different.

[Vondur]

In the past I have played alot of Legends of the Old west and Gutshot aswell as collecting a bunch of models to use in Chaos in Caparthia so I am sure I could get two or more suitable figures for ratcatchers.

Is starting with Hamelin really a super bad idea? That is kind of worrying. I quite like the models and the children and rats vibe going on.

I was eying up Ramos but after reading his tactics I was put off and his apparent weaknesses didnt sound great.

I quite like the Bad dreams set, the Stitched together I could take or leave but the little kid and Lord chompy Bits look pretty awesome. And maybe using a giant evil teddy at some point might be fun.

For some reason I always tend to go straight for the most awkward or worse faction when starting a new game, I dont know why. Maybe because I like silliness in whatever I play or want something a bit different.

If you're at all interested in Ramos I'd say go for it. His crew is really straightforward. I haven't heard anyone point out any significant weaknesses in his crew. Besides, the Steamborg Executioner is a beast.

[VonWyll]

There is nothing wrong with Ramos. I'm not sure what significant weakness your talking about because as far as I'm concerned his crew is really quite sturdy but more importantly, interesting to play.

Being able to attack with spiders, then join them together, attack as a swarm, reactivate and start all over again is hilariously fun (not to mention lethal to ones opponent)

[WUWU]

If you like Hamelin that's who you should get. It's strange to me that people on this forum are so quick to steer people away from certain masters, in favor of something more "beginner" friendly. The fact of the matter is, there's a lot of text on just about every card in the game, and every master plays significantly different from the others. It's the best part about Malifaux. The rules have a simple, elegant design to them, and all the variety of model rules is where the game comes alive.

You'll be fine if you pick up Hammy and proxy some Rat Catchers, in fact, he's probably the best master in the game, but just go with whatever seems fun, and whatever models you think are the coolest.

[Vondur]

If you like Hamelin that's who you should get. It's strange to me that people on this forum are so quick to steer people away from certain masters, in favor of something more "beginner" friendly. The fact of the matter is, there's a lot of text on just about every card in the game, and every master plays significantly different from the others. It's the best part about Malifaux. The rules have a simple, elegant design to them, and all the variety of model rules is where the game comes alive.

You'll be fine if you pick up Hammy and proxy some Rat Catchers, in fact, he's probably the best master in the game, but just go with whatever seems fun, and whatever models you think are the coolest.

I guess it's not such a big deal in this case because he has experience with other games. I tend to be more of the school of thought that a player will have more fun if they're eased into a game rather than thrown into the most complicated situation right from the get go. Some people have a lot of gaming experience though and they actually prefer to be thrown into the fray. It just depends. Reminds me of one of my buddies who wants you to go after him with your best strategies even during his first few learning rounds.

True, all masters have a lot of text but from the ones that I've seen Hamelin definitely falls into the more complex end of the spectrum. It depends on what this player is looking for. You're right though about buying a master that appeals to you. Players aren't going to have as much fun if they feel obligated to buy models they don't like just because they're easier. :bigthumb:

[Angor]

Hey guys thanks for debating this for me, I have found all suggestions really helpful and I can fully understand why you would recommend an easier force. When I started playing Epic Armageddon a year or two ago I began by playing chaos (a relatively simple force) but quickly dropped them for Necrons (a pretty complicated force) I really think playing as Chaos helped me to learn the game but I far preferred playing as the Necrons once I knew it.

I think I might just jump in at the deep end. As alot of us are learning at the same time it might give me some forgiving play time to get used to tactics and the like. If not I will be left with some models that I really like which is fine aswell.

Thanks again for all the help guys.

[magicpockets]

Is starting with Hamelin really a super bad idea? That is kind of worrying. I quite like the models and the children and rats vibe going on.

To try and help put it into perspective, I've first started gaming (WHFB and 40K) over 20 years ago, I was a Rules Marshall at the Malifaux UK GT, I placed joint 3rd in the UKGT and 2nd in the UK spring tourny (with different crews), and I spend waaaaay to much time on these forums - however I played my first game with Hamelin the other night (against a Wyrd Henchman who's been playing longer than me) and in 3 hours we got to the end of turn 3 and had both lost the will to live due to the unusual mechanic of Hamelin's crew

No don't get me wrong, I really think the Hamelin crew is awesome, but its 100% not a good place to start. You could use a simpler crew to get used to the mechanic of the game and it's intricacies - then you can move onto a crew like Hamelin's, especially if you've no experienced gamers nearby to play alongside who can help you.

Being honest, I just worry if you start with Hamelin that you'll get a bad impression of the game when it's actually brilliant

Consider starting with some of the crews pointed out above, or even Rasputina, Nicodem (he has some unique rules), Lillith, Dreamer or the Viktorias - all are easy to start with, have some nice combos you can develop into, and are fun to play. In my opinion I'd say avoid Hamelin, Collette or Pandora for now (in that order).

I hope that helps you out - but remember that's all just my opinion and you should go with whichever direction you feel you want to go. Just remember that if you do go for a more "complex" crew that we're here to help - and take the shouts of "broken" and "overpowered" with a pinch of salt. There's a LOT of rocks on here calling paper broken and scissors balanced if you know what I mean

[Angor]

To try and help put it into perspective, I've first started gaming (WHFB and 40K) over 20 years ago, I was a Rules Marshall at the Malifaux UK GT, I placed joint 3rd in the UKGT and 2nd in the UK spring tourny (with different crews), and I spend waaaaay to much time on these forums - however I played my first game with Hamelin the other night (against a Wyrd Henchman who's been playing longer than me) and in 3 hours we got to the end of turn 3 and had both lost the will to live due to the unusual mechanic of Hamelin's crew

No don't get me wrong, I really think the Hamelin crew is awesome, but its 100% not a good place to start. You could use a simpler crew to get used to the mechanic of the game and it's intricacies - then you can move onto a crew like Hamelin's, especially if you've no experienced gamers nearby to play alongside who can help you.

Being honest, I just worry if you start with Hamelin that you'll get a bad impression of the game when it's actually brilliant

Consider starting with some of the crews pointed out above, or even Rasputina, Nicodem (he has some unique rules), Lillith, Dreamer or the Viktorias - all are easy to start with, have some nice combos you can develop into, and are fun to play. In my opinion I'd say avoid Hamelin, Collette or Pandora for now (in that order).

I hope that helps you out - but remember that's all just my opinion and you should go with whichever direction you feel you want to go. Just remember that if you do go for a more "complex" crew that we're here to help -

Thanks for the advice I really appreciete it. Hopefully using tacticas and other advice off of this site any gang might be a little more accessable to use. I will see what happens, I am pretty sold on Malifaux and will pick up some bits next time I am at my FLG. If they have the toys in store that will possibly be a deciding factor on which Crew I run.

and take the shouts of "broken" and "overpowered" with a pinch of salt. There's a LOT of rocks on here calling paper broken and scissors balanced if you know what I mean

Hehe I know what you mean. Sadly I come from a warhammer background and played up until recently mainly now because if something is called overpowered it usually is.

[Hookers]

and in 3 hours we got to the end of turn 3 and had both lost the will to live due to the unusual mechanic of Hamelin's crew

Being honest, I just worry if you start with Hamelin that you'll get a bad impression of the game when it's actually brilliant

sums up my thoughts pretty well also

[Angor]

Okay I have spent the last few days reading alot about both lots of the leaders and studying the rulebook. (I have a cold and lots of time to kill).

I think I will do the dreamer, he looks alot of fun and I can take some cool models including everyones favourite 'Teddy'. Im going to see if I can phone in an order to my FLG from my plague pit.

Thanks for the help people!

[Shawn Kehoe]

One point about the Ramos starter box: it doesn't come with any 30 mm bases for the Arachnids, just the 40 mm swarm bases. If you go with him, you should probably order a pack of bases as well.