25 point nekima grow list

[micahwc]

I was trying to think of the most cost effective way to get as many young nephilim in a 25 point game using Nekima and Lilith.

Option 1: You can pay for 2

Option 2: you can pay for 3 tots and a desperate mercenary. Kill the mercenary with a tot, who is positioned near Nekima so she gets a blood counter, and then use 2 soul stones to get the third blood counter. This leaves Lilith with 3 stones, which is less than I would like. Alternately you could use Nekima's abillity to take 4 wounds for 1 blood counter instead of using 2 soul stones.

Option 3: You can pay for 4 tots and use soul stones plus nekima's abillity to gain the blood to grow them. Nekima takes 4 wounds and Lilith has no soul stones left.

Option 2 seems the best to me. Option 3 gets more young, but Nekima will have 4 wounds on turn 1, and Lilith will have depleted her cache with Blood from stone. However, 37 points of models in a 25 point game may be worth the cost.

I guess the question is which is more cost effective. 2 soul stones for Lilith or 4 wounds on Nekima? I would lean towards the soul stones for Lilith, but Nekima's abillity to have the young auto-flay is very important to this list.

[MMW-Kyle]

When you kill a desperate merc you get a healing flip. Take the wound on nekima first, then heal it up as you kill the mercenaries.

My 35ss grow list (that cannot be taken to adepticon unfortunately) is

Lilith - 7 stone cashe

4 tots

3 mercs

nekima

Activate Nekima, use the power to get a blood stone. use the power that lets you add masks to your casting.

Activate lilith, kill merc, get a stone, nekima gets a stone, healing flip on nekima.

Activate tot, grow off lilith, mature off nekima, kill merc, healing flip on nekima, get a stone, nekima gets a stone.

Activate tot, grow, kill merc, healing flip if necessary, get stone, nekima gets stone, mature off nekimas 2 stones.

activate tot, grow off matures stone.

end result on turn 1:

Lilith

Nekima

2 mature nephilim

1 young nephilim

1 tot

I've also been meaning to post asking, is there any reason this isn't valid?

[Rathnard]

Well there's one error I can see - you can't take 3 desperate mercenaries. Since you're taking him as a mercenary, you're limited to two.

[micahwc]

Could you take 2 mercenaries and a totem for Lilith? Kill the cherub for a blood counter. You would be down 1 healing flip, but the Malifaux Cherub has the same number of wounds as the merc and only 1 point higher defense. They cost the same number of soul stones.

[MMW-Kyle]

Yes, or if for any reason that doesn't work you could take another tot and just run lilith with 6 stones. 2 healing flips is more than enough since the only damage you're healing are the wounds from Nekima.

[Sliver Chocobo]

I think 25 is too few for a growing list

[micahwc]

25 is a little light I agree. But 3 young, Nekima, and Lilith in a 25 point match sounds like it would be fun.

[micahwc]

I played the 35 point version yesterday against a Ramos crew. We played on an indoor map, which I have found to be the most annoying place to play with Nephilim as it cuts back on thier movement advantages.

Spending a single turn to grow everything seems to be a gamble. It would be fine to do with some strategies/schemes, but would put you at a significant disadvantage for others.

Ramos did okay. His executioner killed a young with decapitate because I forgot he had it, and used all my cards.

Arachnid swarms change from annoying to a major PITA when they paralyze a mature or Nekima.

At the begining of turn 6 I had Lilith, a severly injured mature, and Nekima with a few wounds, versus an uninjured arachnid swarm and Ramos who had about half of his wounds.

Ramos got initiative and did his best to shock Lilith to death, but she survived with one wound. She was able to kill him, and we called the game. It was a pretty close game, but having 17 extra points of models leaned it my way.

The weakness in the grow tactic seems to be that it takes me longer to reach the enemy. Ramos stood back and waited for me to come at him, while fulfilling objectives. Between the indoor sewer terrain, the lack of abillity to fly over terrain, a full turn wasted doing nothing but growing models, it was really difficult for me to actually reach him in time to do the damage I did.

I have tried a grow list a couple of times now, and I am struggling to find a use for the black blood shaman after I am done growing. I don't have any blood counters left after growing to power his abillities, and if the game is like last night against a lot of constructs, then I don't get any more.

What is the best way to use the shaman after he is done growing things?

[PicklesGrr]

I have tried a grow list a couple of times now, and I am struggling to find a use for the black blood shaman after I am done growing. I don't have any blood counters left after growing to power his abillities, and if the game is like last night against a lot of constructs, then I don't get any more.

What is the best way to use the shaman after he is done growing things?

Don't you get 2-3 body counters off merc/totems you can use as blood tokens, but not for growing?

Edited March 19, 2011 by PicklesGrr

[micahwc]

Don't you get 2-3 body counters off merc/totems you can use as blood tokens, but not for growing?

I am confused, I use the blood that he get's from the corpse counters to help grow everything. I ended up with 7 blood counters total, which is exactly how many you need to get 2 mature and 1 young nephilim from tots.

[Stormwolf]

Just as a clarification I've figured out a system for the 2 mature Turn 1, and the young readily available Turn 2 with enough counters to mature it if necessary.

Lilith

Nekima

2 Mercs

3 Tots

Blood Shaman

First activate the Nekima, take 4 wounds get a blood use +mask to casting ability. (1 counter total)

Activate Shaman take 4 wounds get a counter. Use Inject blood to heal Nekima twice, using trigger to keep counter. (1,1)

Activate Lilith kill a merc, drain blood get counter. With remaining actions move/earthquake everyone forward. When Merc dies Nekima/Shaman gets counter, whoever is closer. (1,1,2)

Activate tot, Grow off of Lilith's counter, Mature off of Nekima's/Shaman's whoever has 2 kill Merc drain blood get counter. Try to keep the mercs lined up so if Shaman gets one off his ability Nekima gets the 2nd or vice versa. (1,2)

Activate Tot, Grow/Mature off of able counters.

Activate last Tot, use sprint or something if you want, keep close enough so it can use the 6" with counters.

Turn 2 Activate Shaman, run over corpse counters left by Mercs for blood counters and grow Tot into Young.

It leaves you with 1 blood counter, on the Shaman who with triggers can heal 2 wounds around or do some other fancy stuff. By draggin him along turn 2 with Carry he should be close enough to pick up extra counters as stuff dies.

-Note, use the Merc healing flips on Shaman when they die.

[PicklesGrr]

Using that list you can do the growing in one turn.

Nekima Nephilim Hearts to give out Masks & takes 4 wounds for Blood Offering gaining a Blood Counter BC. BCs Nekima 1

Desperate Merc, DM1 Activates moves B2B with Black Blood Shaman

DM2 Activates moves B2B with Black Blood Shaman

Lillith Chops up DM1 Drains his blood & Nekima Scents it – BCs Lillith 1 Nekima 2. Shaman gets a Corpse Counter, CC. DM Healing flip on Nekima

Shaman Activates, Blood offering for 4 wounds & Injects Black Blood into Nekima using a corpse counter & turning it into a BC. BCs Lillith 1 Nekima 2 Shaman 2

TT1 grows into Y1. BCs Lillith 0 Nekima 2 Shaman 2

Y1 matures into M1. BCs Lillith 0 Nekima 0 Shaman 2

M1 chops up a DM giving itself & a Shaman a BC. Shaman gets a heal flip too. BCs M1 1, Shaman 3

TT2 grows into Y2 BCs M1 0, Shaman 3

Y2 matures into M2 BCs Shaman 1

TT3 Grows into Y3 BCs Shaman 0

Shaman still has a corpse counter. It looks like the second Mature & 3rd Young have quite a bit of freedom of movement*. You may be able to get some more by carrying the Shaman forward using the first Mature Nephilim. Nekima is down 2 wounds & the Shaman 4 but they both have a heal flip & regeneration. This is where I differ from the previous post. If the shaman activates before the DMs are killed it can use their heal flips & heal Nekima twice but it cannot use the corpse counter this turn.

Counters Gained. Blood offering 2, Blood Sense 2, Drain Blood 2. Bloody Mess (converts a Corpse Counter) – 1. Total 7 with one spare corpse counter.

@micahwc – I was wrong I think you only get 8 tokens not the 9-10 I was hoping (or the 7 you stated).

I do not believe you can use corpse tokens on the BBS to grow or mature. Blood from the Dead says “ This model may use its Corpse Counters as Blood Counters for its talents & spells.”

Growing & Maturing are not its spells. It can “launder” the Corpse Counter” by casting spells using corpse tokens & triggering “Bloody Mess”

*except I just read replace & they don't! I will have to try to figure out how much moving I can do.

Edited March 26, 2011 by PicklesGrr
reading comprehension