Pandora and showgirls.

[tadaka]

Any one try these and have any thoughts. Looks like an intresting idea on paper.

[karn987]

I've toyed around with it before and it certainly has some potential... but the cost always gets me. It costs so much for a single pair of them and I feel I can get more bang for my buck from cheaper models like Sorrows and Madness etc.

But that said, there is an intriguing number of things you can do with them that Pandora can only make better... I guess it depends on how much you are willing to spend for them. To me, I'm not certain enough to say if they are or are not worth their cost..

[MrNybbles]

Yes, in fact I had suggested it before.

[35ss Pandora List]

* Pandora

8 Doppelganger

8 Performer & Mannequin (High Class, Mercenary)

3 Sorrow

3 Sorrow

3 Sorrow

5 Stitched Together

5 Stitched Together

Theory:

On turn 1 the Doppelganger copies the Sorrow's action Link. The other zero-action is used to link to Pandora.

Pandora can move about 14" by casting Dementia on herself and each time she walks (up to 3" each) she must also win a willpower duel which triggers Fading Memory which pushes her 4" before she walks.

On turn 2 the Doppelganger can copy the Mannequin's 8 Wp (on of the few stats that can be copied) and also Stitched together's Gamble Your Life which inflicts a Dg 3/4/7 flip which may be cheated on the looser of the duel. This uses both zero-actions leaving the Doppelganger with 2 General AP to use to cast Gamble Your Life.

While in base contact with Pandora's Unhealthy Relationship gives the Doppelganger gains +1 to Wp giving the Doppelganger an effective Wp of 9!

The Fault:

Stitched Together can't really keep up with Pandora moving 14" and is needed for that part of the combo. Maybe holding back a turn would help resolve this, but both the Mannequin and Stitched Together must be within 6" and line of sight of the Doppelganger.

------

Another combo!:

The Sorrows have a spell called Doldrums which can inflict Paralyzed. The Performers have a 1 AP action called Poison Gift. Note that Doldrums can be used in melee (because it lacks the icon) and the Performer must be fairly close to use Poison Gift.

The performers have the same problem in Pandora's crew that they do in Colette's crew, if your opponent really wants to kill one then your opponent will cheat the Irresistible flip, if necessary, cheat and maybe Soulstone the attack flip, and kill the Performer (usually in one hit).

In a large game taking two Performer & Mannequin pairs may work a lot better and they are decent debuffers.

Another nice bonus of the Performer is the mannequin's Beautiful Clothes spell is actually useful. Just link the Mannequin to the Performer and use companion to have both inflict Wp duels within range of Pandora & a Doppelganger.

[35ss Next Experimental Pandora List]

* Pandora (Cache: 5)

8 Doppelganger

2 Primordial Magic

8 Performer & Mannequin

8 Performer & Mannequin

3 Sorrow

3 Sorrow

3 Sorrow

[karn987]

Yeah its a toy list basically, I don't see it as being very competitive as its way to easy to break. Also it uses the Dementia trick which... while it is perfectly fine to use it... will often garner you a lot of hate from your fellow players. It really is a cheesy trick. You really don't need it to win ^^ You just need to be a bit more careful in your movement and you start off a little slow till you get into Incite/Pacify range.

That second list is interesting, and has some potential to it. Poison Gift + Doldrums is certainly a nasty trick, you just have to a) get hte sorrows into range and actually have the spell go off which is not that easy. Either way it is a bit risky, but going with the heavy debuffs can certainly be a lot of fun. You just have to watch out for high wp models and Blasts. But I do like that one... I think I will have to give it a try.

We definitely need to experiment a bit more with these models and see what we can come up with. I feel like we are missing something obvious..

Edited February 17, 2011 by karn987

[magicpockets]

Y

Pandora can move about 14" by casting Dementia on herself

Don't forget 4" for every attempt to do pacify/incite :lame:

[MrNybbles]

In my second list I should have suggested basically getting Pandora, Doppelganger, and maybe the Sorrows close enough to inflict Wp duels, then use the Performers to debuff using Mesmerizing and Seduction, then you could use any Sorrows with LoS to cast Doldrums and attempt to paralyze the enemy. By now your opponent should be low on high control cards.

The Mannequin can link to the Performer to move around. Once close enough to the enemy model you can then Move the Mannequin 4" to lock the models into melee. The Mannequin's Beautiful Clothes requires melee, but most of your other Wp duels are neither melee or ranged

This has some very nice uses. A ranged enemy model is prevented from making ranged attacks, and all models must Disengage to get to whatever they want to attack. While in melee your Mannequin can cast Beautiful Clothes which is actually worth doing in a Pandora crew.

Having the Performer inflict Poison Gift would happen on a following turn, or your opponent could eat an activation on activating a paralyzed model to prevent you from doing so. Why not paralyze someone else?

One issue with this list will be how quickly those Performers die. They not only debuff and inflict up to 3 Wp duels in a turn making them your firepower, but also are somewhat easy to kill. About half the time the Irresistible flip won't need to be cheated and they have 5 Df.

Keeping the two Performers within 4" of each other is probably a good idea. When one gets gunned down the other can Reactivate for additional Showgirl mayhem. And if the second one dies you can always Reactivate a Mannequin.

A lot of synergy with this list. Hopefully the potential will work out.

@ magicpockets: The first time I played you actually could do that and that is what my opponent taught me to do. Now you can only target enemy models, but at least it brings Incite & Pacify back to what is probably it's original intent.

[magicpockets]

@ magicpockets: The first time I played you actually could do that and that is what my opponent taught me to do. Now you can only target enemy models, but at least it brings Incite & Pacify back to what is probably it's original intent.

Yeah, but it's still a WP duel, so when you win it (against an enemy model) you can push 4"

[karn987]

@ magicpockets: The first time I played you actually could do that and that is what my opponent taught me to do. Now you can only target enemy models, but at least it brings Incite & Pacify back to what is probably it's original intent.

Must definitely have been the intention Because it was extremely broken. Now that its gone... Pandora still works! Now all we need to do is see Dementia abuse stop. =)

In my second list I should have suggested basically getting Pandora, Doppelganger, and maybe the Sorrows close enough to inflict Wp duels, then use the Performers to debuff using Mesmerizing and Seduction, then you could use any Sorrows with LoS to cast Doldrums and attempt to paralyze the enemy. By now your opponent should be low on high control cards.

The Mannequin can link to the Performer to move around. Once close enough to the enemy model you can then Move the Mannequin 4" to lock the models into melee. The Mannequin's Beautiful Clothes requires melee, but most of your other Wp duels are neither melee or ranged

This has some very nice uses. A ranged enemy model is prevented from making ranged attacks, and all models must Disengage to get to whatever they want to attack. While in melee your Mannequin can cast Beautiful Clothes which is actually worth doing in a Pandora crew.

Having the Performer inflict Poison Gift would happen on a following turn, or your opponent could eat an activation on activating a paralyzed model to prevent you from doing so. Why not paralyze someone else?

One issue with this list will be how quickly those Performers die. They not only debuff and inflict up to 3 Wp duels in a turn making them your firepower, but also are somewhat easy to kill. About half the time the Irresistible flip won't need to be cheated and they have 5 Df.

Keeping the two Performers within 4" of each other is probably a good idea. When one gets gunned down the other can Reactivate for additional Showgirl mayhem. And if the second one dies you can always Reactivate a Mannequin.

A lot of synergy with this list. Hopefully the potential will work out.

My problem with this is, I can sub in 2 Insidious Madness or something more powerful like Coppelius and get the same basic effect and possibly more value. (Which is basically Wp duels and over-all synergy with Pandora/death-dealing)

That's my problem with them, the sheer cost of them. I am just not convinced they are worth the 8ss you have to pay for them. But well, I may be pleasantly surprised and convinced they can be better. Going to try and give them a try this weekend and see what this does for me. Still just not convinced they are worth those 8ss ;D

[tadaka]

Must definitely have been the intention Because it was extremely broken. Now that its gone... Pandora still works! Now all we need to do is see Dementia abuse stop. =)

I was sad to see this was not changed to enemy model with the v2 card. Did not think they intended this to be cast on pandora herself.

[karn987]

I was sad to see this was not changed to enemy model with the v2 card. Did not think they intended this to be cast on pandora herself.

I agree with you. But when you think about the sheer volume of work it was to do the v2 cards and compiling and testing all the changes and rewrites on them etc... things get missed. Don't worry about it =)

[Csonti]

i was sad to see this was not changed to enemy model with the v2 card. Did not think they intended this to be cast on pandora herself.

+1

[Wodschow]

It wouldn't be a problem at all if models couldn't cast resist spells on themselves though :whistle:

As for the actual thread, I too find the cost too high compared to what you could get within the Neverborn otherwise.

If I were to take them I'd field them with Coppelius, not instead of however.

Poison Gift is tremendously powerful but paralyzing effects are hard to come by. Coppelius dishes it out right and left.

I'd still rather field them with Zoraida, Nicodem or maybe even Hoffman(and Coppelius - also gives you another construct to link to Hoffman, one with high Armor ) than with Pandora.