dreamer list for tournament

[Avarice711]

this is my dreamer list for the tournament we got coming up.

it's one master

bring 70ss worth of models can play 30ss each match, objective based

i am only posting a 30ss list because there is going to be an iron man prize for someone who does the best using the same list through all 3 rounds and i am going for it. my list is as follows

The dreamer+ LCB 5ss from nightmares+1 from being 1ss under

2x day dreams

2x alps

2x stitched togethers

1x teddy

I've actually had quite a bit of luck with this list as it has alot of variety i bring the alps for cheap activations and more non insignificant models for objectives along with allowing the dreamer protection from ranged attacks

basically how i play the list is 2 day dreams and dreamer start on the baord and fly forward turn 1, turn 2 maybe a nightmare or 2 come out but usually not lcb and turn 3 i usually drop everything but I try to out activate my opponent to where lcb and teddy go with only my opponent only having 1 or 2 models left to activate, those bing the highest priority targets and always trying to make sure i can turn lcb back into the dreamer.

what do you guys think?

[karn987]

this is my dreamer list for the tournament we got coming up.

it's one master

bring 70ss worth of models can play 30ss each match, objective based

i am only posting a 30ss list because there is going to be an iron man prize for someone who does the best using the same list through all 3 rounds and i am going for it. my list is as follows

The dreamer+ LCB 5ss from nightmares+1 from being 1ss under

2x day dreams

2x alps

2x stitched togethers

1x teddy

I've actually had quite a bit of luck with this list as it has alot of variety i bring the alps for cheap activations and more non insignificant models for objectives along with allowing the dreamer protection from ranged attacks

basically how i play the list is 2 day dreams and dreamer start on the baord and fly forward turn 1, turn 2 maybe a nightmare or 2 come out but usually not lcb and turn 3 i usually drop everything but I try to out activate my opponent to where lcb and teddy go with only my opponent only having 1 or 2 models left to activate, those bing the highest priority targets and always trying to make sure i can turn lcb back into the dreamer.

what do you guys think?

Not a bad list. It has the standard core for a Dreamer list (the 2 day dreams). Alps are very nice, but I prefer them in packs of 3 myself but that is just my preference. You really can't go wrong with a Stitched Together though since their update they are slightly less broken (in that you can't bury them any more when Does Not Die! procs). But they can certainly cause some havoc.

Teddy is ALWAYS a good decission, you just need to make sure you don't leave him around something that can ignore his hard to Wound and just nail him (think blasts).

When to bring out LCB could be a tactical manual in and of it's self, but you sound like you have a good head on this. Just don't get over eager and remember, your crew is not tough.

But over-all, it should serve you well. Not my usual style, but everyone has their own. Good luck!

[mythicFOX]

this is my dreamer list for the tournament we got coming up.

it's one master

bring 70ss worth of models can play 30ss each match, objective based

i am only posting a 30ss list because there is going to be an iron man prize for someone who does the best using the same list through all 3 rounds and i am going for it. my list is as follows

The dreamer+ LCB 5ss from nightmares+1 from being 1ss under

2x day dreams

2x alps

2x stitched togethers

1x teddy

I've actually had quite a bit of luck with this list as it has alot of variety i bring the alps for cheap activations and more non insignificant models for objectives along with allowing the dreamer protection from ranged attacks

basically how i play the list is 2 day dreams and dreamer start on the baord and fly forward turn 1, turn 2 maybe a nightmare or 2 come out but usually not lcb and turn 3 i usually drop everything but I try to out activate my opponent to where lcb and teddy go with only my opponent only having 1 or 2 models left to activate, those bing the highest priority targets and always trying to make sure i can turn lcb back into the dreamer.

what do you guys think?

I'll start by saying that if this build works for you then keep it and run with it. However...

IMHO the two Alps are an issue. Alps get exponentially better up to about the four Alp mark. Four Alps give the maximum :-fate on Smother, good AOE coverage and making Slow + Strike = death to most opponents. With only two Alps I don't think you're getting enough bang for your buck. Plus you can't surround an enemy model to prevent them being pushed out of your Alp swarm.

I think you should either commit to the Alp bomb or drop it altogether. I'd try;

2x Day Dream (4)

1x Teddy (9)

1x Stitched Together (5)

4x Alp (12)

5ss Cache

[gregdorf]

The stitched together way more potent then the alps in my opinion, the only thing you have to watch for is immune to influence models, that is where the alps tend to be better then Stitched. In our games the alps spent their time going after objective markers or they died when they went after the zombie dogs. My thought is you have not developed a clear roll for them in your list.

[oozeboss]

I think you should either commit to the Alp bomb or drop it altogether.

I don't like to be always agreeing with you.

:thumb:

Stop making so much sense!

:marshmell:marshmell:marshmell:marshmell:marshmell

[mythicFOX]

No.

[Avarice711]

The stitched together way more potent then the alps in my opinion, the only thing you have to watch for is immune to influence models, that is where the alps tend to be better then Stitched. In our games the alps spent their time going after objective markers or they died when they went after the zombie dogs. My thought is you have not developed a clear roll for them in your list.

you know greg i could always play a third stitched if you'd like?

[karn987]

Remember, Stitched Together have a change on their cards now that make them no longer horribly broken. When Does Not Die! Kicks in now, they can't be buried. This drops their usefulness a lot but still makes them very good.

I would not rely on Stitched Together to do your dirty work for you. You'll get better mileage out of a Teddy or Coppelius. I would stick to 1 or 2 stitched together and a big Nightmare. Or if you want, go with the Twins (yes its 14pnts) and then some support for them.

Dreamer (cache 5)

Daydream x2 -4pnts

Lelu -7pnts

Lilitu -7pnts

Stitched Together x2 -10pnts

28pnts with 7 cache.

I will attest to the lethality of this list as it is a favorite of mine at 30ss. The Twins are devistating if used carefully and you take care to keep Lelu up front and Lilitu at her range, making use of that Whip and her other abilities. Stitched Together are amazing Tar Pit units and the best thing you can do is hurl them into the face of Masters and powerful Minions. Remember, Lady J is nasty but she can not get rid of him on her own time. Plus their Gamble Your Life can hurt her and others around her nevermind what the fog will do to their LOS's for charges/shots etc. This lets Lelu and LCB do a lot of leg work because you can easily bog down and plain out deny other models from targeting either of them.

I would honestly say, avoid Alp Bombs where you can. People are getting better against them and I know I've been pushing tactics and advice out to people on how to deal with them. They are really great units, but they are 60% shock and Awe and 40% actual danger. But hey, if thats the style of list you want to play go for it! Just make sure you bring Coppelius to make more of them.

[mythicFOX]

Agree with everything karn said about the Alp Bomb.

Another word on why you need to keep some Stitched in the build;

He's your single best bodyguard for The Dreamer. I tend to keep a Daydream close to The Dreamer to take hits for him, then when it dies drop a Stitched in its place.

That stitched isn't going anywhere until the end of the turn, making the dreamer effectively immortal until then.

Against a Guild gun line I'll deploy a Stitched activate him first and; defensive stance, creepy fog then pass. Next activation I have a Daydream bury the stitched ready to appear next to The Dreamer.

I never leave home without at least one Stitched.

[karn987]

OH! Something I completely FAILED to mention!

When you bury a model they are taken out of play and not subject to the flow of time in game. So if you have a Stitched Together do Creeping Fog at the start of the game and then bury him... when you unbury him he still has Creeping Fog up! This lets you hurl out extremely tough LOS blocking blobs that can also do a startling amount of damage.

The same thing works really really well with Insidious Madness. You have him do his Psychopathic Episode, bury him, and then unbury him where you need that up immediately. Just be aware that this trick with bury works the other way to. If you have a nasty debuff on you or have say Slow or Paralyzed on you and you bury that Nightmare, it will come back into play later with that same debuff on it.

[mythicFOX]

It also works with Teddy's Smell Fear.

I find defensive stance is amazing when you drop it on a nightmare in this way.

[Bozzy]

honestly don't run the dreamer yet but got my list in the works for when I pokem up since I gave most every neverborn model....my list is olmost identical to yours..lelu lillitu(lovem in all my nb lists)..2 stitched abs day dreams...in a 35 point game what model would you add ??

[mythicFOX]

honestly don't run the dreamer yet but got my list in the works for when I pokem up since I gave most every neverborn model....my list is olmost identical to yours..lelu lillitu(lovem in all my nb lists)..2 stitched abs day dreams...in a 35 point game what model would you add ??

:thsigns05

I'm going to translate what you just said as...

What do I add to this list to make it 35ss;

Dreamer/LCB

2 Stitched (10)

2 Daydreams (4)

Lelu (7)

Lilitu (7)

On that basis you have 7ss left to play with. It depends if you want to go hitty or tricky.

The hitty option would be dropping one stitched and add a Teddy and another Daydream. The tricky option is an iMadness and another Daydream to backup the Stitched and Lilitu's Wp abilities.

You could also go with a second Lelu or Lilitu if you wanted.

[Bozzy]

Ty..sorry for the jumbled mess..was posting from work on my phone lol.. The two sets of twins could be a lot of fun.hmmm

[gregdorf]

Remember, Stitched Together have a change on their cards now that make them no longer horribly broken. When Does Not Die! Kicks in now, they can't be buried. This drops their usefulness a lot but still makes them very good.

I would not rely on Stitched Together to do your dirty work for you. You'll get better mileage out of a Teddy or Coppelius. I would stick to 1 or 2 stitched together and a big Nightmare. Or if you want, go with the Twins (yes its 14pnts) and then some support for them.

The change to Does Not Die did not change the usefulness (broken qualities) of Stitched Together. Of the several games I have played against that list Teddy has been a none issue and the damage that has been done has always been the Stitched using gamble for your life and then Lord Chompy Bits. I really think that their Gamble for your Life really needs to be changed to a 0 action, or take away reactivate from Does Not Die, that would put them closer to their 5 ss cost.

Personally I have used Coppelius in a few lists and I just cannot get him to be that effective, not for the amount of soul stones he cost. There are too many models out there for that price range I would rather take for competitive play.

[karn987]

The change to Does Not Die did not change the usefulness (broken qualities) of Stitched Together. Of the several games I have played against that list Teddy has been a none issue and the damage that has been done has always been the Stitched using gamble for your life and then Lord Chompy Bits. I really think that their Gamble for your Life really needs to be changed to a 0 action, or take away reactivate from Does Not Die, that would put them closer to their 5 ss cost.

Personally I have used Coppelius in a few lists and I just cannot get him to be that effective, not for the amount of soul stones he cost. There are too many models out there for that price range I would rather take for competitive play.

I beg to differ Greg. Before, as long as you could bury the ST each turn, it could not be killed by most things. It would just constantly keep falling under Does Not Die! If you damaged it and would never be in play to die. So while it sitll remains very useful, it lost the big broken part of it. Right now it is just rather strong for its cost like the Punk Zombies.

They really don't need any other tweaks, people just don't fight them correctly. Most people ignore them to long or don't finish them off because of Does Not Die and don't see the ways around it. But turning Gamble Your Life to a (0)? Hell no. That is not the right idea at all because it's very balanced. Its even a double edged sword which is actually rather cool. And Does Not Die would not be really all that useful without Reactivate.

As for Coppelius, I guess he just doesn't mesh with you. I've never really had an issue with getting him to work and most of the time he is more then worth his cost. Between his ability to do reliable damange, Paralyze, buffs to terrifying as a strategy, and the ability to heal and make Alps... he is the type of model some people love. But if you just like brute force, well Teddy! There is no better =D

[vybeosa]

The change to Does Not Die did not change the usefulness (broken qualities) of Stitched Together. Of the several games I have played against that list Teddy has been a none issue and the damage that has been done has always been the Stitched using gamble for your life and then Lord Chompy Bits. I really think that their Gamble for your Life really needs to be changed to a 0 action, or take away reactivate from Does Not Die, that would put them closer to their 5 ss cost.

Personally I have used Coppelius in a few lists and I just cannot get him to be that effective, not for the amount of soul stones he cost. There are too many models out there for that price range I would rather take for competitive play.

I also disagree. After all Gamble you life is a double edged sword. I personally end up hurting myself as often as I end up hurting the enemy, effectively killing my stiched together on my own... I must be doing something wrong. And at least I get reactivate (if I didn't I wouldn't try Gamble your life much, if at all).

mythicFOX: I always do my first turn activating abilities like creepy fog, smell fear, disturbing whispers, etc and burrying my models. But I actually never thought of using the defensive stance, it's a great idea! I actually have never seen defensive stance used yet.

[mythicFOX]

Defensive stance is IMHO somthing you can really use effectively in this crew. You can overcome the movement penalties fairly easily.

@ gregdorf: What crew are you playing against the Sitched with?

[karn987]

I find myself rarely using defensive stance with Neverborn. I always seem to find a way to make that Ap I would use for it more use by attacking or just getting out of LOS. I am not saying it doesn't have it's uses, I've just never gotten much mileage out of it... not my style I guess =D

@vybeosa: Neh your doing it right. ST will hurt it's self a little less then half the time, it's just what happens. But that is a big reason why it has Does Not Die! and why that gives reactivate. It was like it was meant to work that way =D

@Bozzy: For 35ss I have a bunch of different lists depending on what Im up against. But some of my favorites:

Dreamer (5 cache)

Daydream x2 -4pnts

Teddy x2 -18pnts

Coppelius -9pnts

Madness -4pnts

35pnts 5cache

I like this list because it has 3 huge beat sticks in it. Teddys + Coppelius will saw through everything in the game. You just want to make sure you have your Daydreams positioned to pick them up after they make their strikes if against something really tough. Though Teddy can certainly take a pounding and Coppelius should pretty much ALWAYS paralyze with his last attack if you can't kill the target. You may be saying, why madness? Because of Terrifying! LCB, Teddy, and Coppelius are all really really dangerous Terrifying models and Psychopathic Episode kept active through burying tricks and then dropped at the right time can make the game an easy win for you. Plus Madness's weapon can strip Wp immunities so it will make some models subject to the Terrifying effect that were not before (though this will be of no use in making Spirits, Constructs and Undead subject to them because they are not Immune to the duel, they just don't have to take it. ONLY LIVING models must take Terrifying checks).

[Natty]

I love defensive stance =)

Since the game isn't really about killing your opponents (except for slaughter); I've always felt that defensive stance is a huge part of the game. Let's you stall things out when you know you are going to win.

[mythicFOX]

@ karn987 - Love that list, might have to get round to painting my second Teddy...

[karn987]

I prefer using several big Nightmares then a swarm of lesser ones like Alps and ST's. I always find that when I swarm, I run into Blasts and other AE's or models that those lesser ones just can't take down. Plus I really really do not like relying on just LCB to take on their Master ><.

The more I play Dreamer, the less I find myself relying on Alps and using the stronger and more versatile Nightmares like Coppelius and the Twins. Gonna have to do more then just a simple source material update for my tactica I think >.>

[mythicFOX]

I prefer using several big Nightmares then a swarm of lesser ones like Alps and ST's. I always find that when I swarm, I run into Blasts and other AE's or models that those lesser ones just can't take down. Plus I really really do not like relying on just LCB to take on their Master ><.

The more I play Dreamer, the less I find myself relying on Alps and using the stronger and more versatile Nightmares like Coppelius and the Twins. Gonna have to do more then just a simple source material update for my tactica I think >.>

Probably because numbers are mostly good in order to support activation control, which is not something this crew fights for anyway. Nightmares are squishy, so little nightmares are very squishy. Therefore the small one's are only useful in numbers when you need lots of boots on the ground for VP conditions.

[Alondir]

my 35 point list is as follows:

LCB/Dreamer with 7ss cashe

1 stitched,

copelius,

2 daydreams,

5 alps,

its got a good amount of bodies on the field so doesn't have trouble with many strats and between controling the alps/LCB/Copelius theres not much that will take it down

Copelius is just amazing he can control games with the para trigger, and hes very tough, (in comparison to other nightmares) + 2 healing flips for 1 eye counter its amazing and has saved his ass so many times.

I find I hardly do any damage with the alps there more of a scare tactic, theres a high damage potential there so it enables your other nightmares to function better.

Only thing I feel I struggle with are masters, but they cant be everywhere at once so just wittling away there ss through gambles/alps slow then let LCB tear into them when there low.

Tbh iv had so much luck with this list so far my LGC would like me to change this list, and use something else

[vybeosa]

I usually like lots of models better, I always find myself needing those boots for VP.

That's why I tend to go with Lelu and Lilitu a lot. They're like one big Nightmare together, except they're 2 models for VP purposes. Plus I love isolating enemy models one by one with Lilitu and sending all my Nightmares to eat them in a secure position.