Sorrow Bombs!!!

[Natty]

These are the things I think about instead of working.

Crew:

Pandora

Doppelganger

Stitched Together

Hamelin

Pere Ravage (recruited since he is height 1 through Hamelin)

lots of Sorrows.

Activate the Doppelganger. Copy copy Pandora's ability to give Woes in base contact her (0) actions and then copy the Stitched Together's ability to not die. The Woes then activative a use the Doppelganger's (0) action to Copy the Doppelgangers ability to use two (0) actions. Then they use their second (0) action to copy the stitched together's not die ability. You now have a block of unkillable minions.

Use Hamelin get the doppelganger further up the field (and drag the unkillable Sorrows with it), and then use Pere/Stitched to kill your own Doppelganger, giving it reactivate.

Now activate Pandora, and bounce around the field trying to make as many opposing minions get -defense flips as possible. Feel free to use up soulstones to make the cast irresistible because any minion with a -def flip is soon to be very, very, very, dead.

The doppelganger then copies Pere's explode ability and Pandora's casting expert. Move the Doppelganger into position and drag the Sorrows with you, and then explode the Doppelganger, killing stuff around you and killing the Sorrows as well. Use Casting expert to explode again, doing more damage. If you haven't had to use Hamelin, after the Doppelganger's initial explosion you could use Hamelin to walk her a little further and get her into a better position via obey.

Then activate your sorrows (since they have stitched together's ability to not die and have reactivate since the doppelganger killed them). The sorrows will still be in base contact with the doppelganger because of (0) link. Use the (0) action from the doppelganger (through the copied Pandora's ability) to copy Pere Ravages explode, and then use the second (0) action (because the doppelganger's ability to use two (0)'s was copied earlier) to copy a higher movement speed, nimble, fast, a movement ability or casting expert (whichever you happen to need and is nearby). If there is stuff still alive nearby, just explode twice or three times (if you copied casting expert). If there isn't, then make a move action or two and explode a little further from the doppelganger.

...and BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM. You have the biggest bomb ever. Each 3 cost sorrow that you can afford to buy turns into an unkillable mini-nuke.

Using the nurse to make rocket dogs is so 2009. This is 2010, baby, and we have a whole new book full of crap to exploit!!!

Edited November 17, 2010 by Natty

[Natty]

My thoughts:

It would have to be a big game, because without the Sorrows you are still spending like 30 points. However, a big game means more enemies and it means that they can't spread out as much to avoid this. This strategy looks like it can take out about half the table at one go, and still leave you will Pandora, A Stitched Together, Hamelin, and the original Pere Ravage to kill stuff with, so it's not like it is an all or nothing.

Watch out for stuff that can Push your doppelganger. If they can get her away from your sorrows before they activate, it wont work. You may need to use some Pandora ninja action to take out any models like the Dead Rider before you do this. Or at least make them be falling back (with her trigger) before you start the nuke fest.

Edited November 17, 2010 by Natty

[Natty]

Oh, and even if you don't want to do the whole thing with the sorrows because the game isn't enough points, any neverborn army (and not just Pandora) can still do:

Doppelganger

Stitched Together

Hamelin

Pere Ravage.

Use the Doppelgangers first turn to copy Explode and Unkillable. Then walk forward and blow up (giving yourself reactivate and taking someone with you hopefully). Then copy casting expert and/or fast and/or nimble, and move around blowing up even more.

Alternately, copy Pandora's push ability and Pacify and ninja around the field like that in between explosions. Also, Hamelin can be used to reposition the Doppelganger in between explosions.

[karn987]

Link has changed Natty =)

A model can only have 1 model linked to it at a time. So the Doppelganger could only have 1 Sorrow come with it.

(0) Link: This model and target model in base contact with it are Linked. After the model this model is Linked to completes a Walk Action or finishes its activation, Push this model into base contact with the Linked model. A model can be Linked to only one model at a time. Link ends if the two models are not in base contact at the Start Closing Phase.

But otherwise, a neat idea. Good thinking on the Doppelganger and making use of Does not Die to exploit Mimic more and with the Sorrows. Edited November 17, 2010 by karn987

[WEiRD sKeTCH]

Nope. That line got cut Karn.

[karn987]

:confused:

But you have it listed in the Extra Errata thread still.

http://www.wyrd-games.net/forum/showpost.php?p=140465&postcount=2

That quote is pulled directly from that post. The line is still there Sketch >.>

Did you make another ruling later that killed that line? If so can I get a link to it as I never saw it ><

:flaminghe

Edited November 17, 2010 by karn987

[ddot]

Come on, you're telling me we still don't have a carved-in-stone-and signed-in-blood version of Link available???

Natty, that's so f-ed up I'll be reviewing this all night before deciding it's just too ridiculous not to try at least once.

[karn987]

Come on, you're telling me we still don't have a carved-in-stone-and signed-in-blood version of Link available???

Natty, that's so f-ed up I'll be reviewing this all night before deciding it's just too ridiculous not to try at least once.

We were supposed to, that's what the extra errata post was for to clear up stuff like this. It contains the golden record of the Link.

Edited November 17, 2010 by karn987

[Wodschow]

Nope. That line got cut Karn.

Really...? O_o

Oh, and nice find Natty. Interesting idea, but big requirements, although that big games tend to be brawls and in those you could scratch Hamelin if you brought Zoraida.

Also I doubt it'd work more than once against an opponent as it has some weak points as you pointed out yourself, but not sure.. Some lists might really not have the tools to throw into this lists cogs.

Edited November 17, 2010 by Wodschow

[WEiRD sKeTCH]

The wording on Link:

This model and target model in base contact with it are Linked. After the model this model is Linked to completes a Walk Action or ends its activation, Push this model into base contact with the Linked model. Link ends if the two models are not in base contact at the Start Closing Phase.

THAT'S what happens when you try to rush us for answers.

Just sayin'

[karn987]

The wording on Link:

THAT'S what happens when you try to rush us for answers.

Just sayin'

Wow this really changes a lot of things again... Sorrows are basically back to how they were originally now. We've come full circle back to nearly the same thing we started with heh.

Edited November 17, 2010 by karn987

[Wodschow]

Yeah, means it makes sense to include more than a single Sorrow in your lists again. Which I suppose is a good thing.

Still not as abuseable as the old wording as it's still only end of activation and walks. We'll see what changes it makes.

Reason for both models to be considered Linked is that targets can Shrug it Off? Or why is it important to mention? :S

[WEiRD sKeTCH]

Can be shrugged off. And Abilities dealing with a model that's Linked to another model. Like the Grave Spirit's granting of Armor (off the top of my head).

[Ratty]

Hmm does that mean if you have Sorrow 1 and Sorrow 2 linked to Pandora. If Pandora moves in her activation both join her at the end. However if Sorrow 1 moves, Pandora moves to it, but Sorrow 2 gets left behind as Pandora is pushing and not taking an activation?

[WEiRD sKeTCH]

Hmm does that mean if you have Sorrow 1 and Sorrow 2 linked to Pandora. If Pandora moves in her activation both join her at the end. However if Sorrow 1 moves, Pandora moves to it, but Sorrow 2 gets left behind as Pandora is pushing and not taking an activation?

Correct. Pandora isn't making a Walk Action nor is she ending her activation.

Edited November 17, 2010 by WEiRD sKeTCH

[Wodschow]

Wait what..!?

If I link to a model with my Sorrow and then move the Sorrow.. Nothing happens, right?

Otherwise I've been severely misunderstanding the rules..

Sorry for derailing this even further by the way Natty :S

[Natty]

Sorry for derailing this even further by the way Natty :S

Haha, it's ok. Like I've never been responsible for derailing a thread before?

Let him who is without sin make the first damage flip. (According the the gospel of Weird Sketch)

<edit> Oh yeah, and no, moving a sorrow will never move the linked Pandora. The ability says "After the model this model is Linked to completes a Walk Action or finishes its activation, Push this model into base contact with the Linked model." So they are both "linked", but only one has the link ability, and only one is affected by that line from the ability. Well, I'm 99% sure that is how it would work. They have changed link so much now that I am wayyyyyyyyyy not 100% on anything about it. <end edit>

Edited November 17, 2010 by Natty

[Natty]

interesting idea, but big requirements, although that big games tend to be brawls and in those you could scratch Hamelin if you brought Zoraida.

Honestly, I hate the concepts of brawls. I've never played in one and don't really care too. This game just isn't balanced for them. All I do is see a billion different annoying un-fun combos when you get two masters together. I would much sooner play a 40 point, 1 master game than any 2 master game.

And come on, in a 40 point game (not unreasonable since we always play 30 or 35 here), you could do the bomb with 3 or 4 sorrows. That will basically take out a huge swath of the table.

It definitely isn't overpowered because you opponent will see it coming and it can get derailed. But if you play it right, and use Pandora to make any model that could stop it from happening fall back with her trigger, then it would be disgusting.

If it WAS a brawl, then just remember, you could take a second doppelganger!!!

[Natty]

also remember that with the new wording on stitched together, one the model is killed, they can no longer be buried or sacrificed either, so the only way to stop this is to somehow break up the pack with movement abilities or make them all lose a moral duel.

Most crews will have very limited models that can move the opponent around and very limited models that can cause moral duals. If terror tests are a problem, then save your Hamelin to obey the terror model to walk away from the bomb before it goes off, or make sure Pandora makes them fall back and then put the bomb out of melee range. Also, most models with terror have a huge damage line, so Pandora can kill them pretty easily with self loathing.

Remember, a model only has to make a terror test if it starts its activation in melee range or if it charges. So you can park close to the terror model, then walk next to it, then explode, and never have to make a test.

[Natty]

By the way, I never play games big enough to do this, nor do I hate my friends enough to do it, but someone HAS to try it for me and let me know how it goes.

[karn987]

Wait what..!?

If I link to a model with my Sorrow and then move the Sorrow.. Nothing happens, right?

Otherwise I've been severely misunderstanding the rules..

Sorry for derailing this even further by the way Natty :S

Nothing happens. You got it right Wodschow, don't stress about that ;D. The wording is nearly exactly like the original wording again so all the old tactics are going to be coming back to.

@Natty: Well I guess this would work then... I think for pure morbid curiosity Im going to have to try this once just to see it on the table. But theory machine wise.... it works, its dangerous, but it could be hilarious. =D

[Ratty]

Cool, for some reason everyone in our store thought that the link went both ways. It will make quite a bit of difference to games in our LGS. Pandora will no longer be able to have a sorrow link to her and pull her forward (in some ways it's a shame as I'm already making a hugh mess of her).

[karn987]

Cool, for some reason everyone in our store thought that the link went both ways. It will make quite a bit of difference to games in our LGS. Pandora will no longer be able to have a sorrow link to her and pull her forward (in some ways it's a shame as I'm already making a hugh mess of her).

Heh if she worked that way it would be soo much harder to stop a solid player with her. She is already nasty enough as it is, these kinds of things make me shiver in fear and she is my main master!

:pandora:ahhhhh:

Edited November 18, 2010 by karn987

[Wodschow]

Nothing happens. You got it right Wodschow, don't stress about that ;D. The wording is nearly exactly like the original wording again so all the old tactics are going to be coming back to.

Humm well..

Before you could drag the Sorrows along when you pushed around with Fading Memory, you cannot do that anymore.. Or well.. You'll have to spend 1AP on walking first anyway.

So you cannot get quite as much damage from the Sorrows' Emotional Stress. Which I think is what alot of the old tactics relied on.

You also have to link to Pandora, you cannot chain the Sorrows to one another.

Finally you'll most likely break the link if you opt to push after you've activated her.

So not exactly like the old days.. But we'll see there's 3 new Woes aswell that could be fun to fool around with. I have some plans already with things you can do with this hopefully last Link-change

[Natty]

I'm thread-o-mancing this.

Has anyone tried making the Natty Sorrow Bomb yet?

I'd love to hear about it.