Pandora: Primordial Magic or Poltergeist?

[The Lone Gamer]

Greetings, all!

I am assembling a Pandora crew and am looking at totems. While the Poltergeist is Pandora's totem with the accompanying "Companion" rule, I am not a fan of the model. I also have Lilith and LCB/The Dreamer coming, so I started looking at Primordial Magic, since it would work with all three should the fancy strike me. Is the latter a reasonable model to work with Pandora? Or is the Poltergeist worth it?

The rest of the list currently:

3 Sorrows

Baby Kade

Teddy

Doppleganger

My thanks!

[chaosobscuros]

I usually do not take a totem with Pandora, preferring to boost her SS pool. But if I did take a totem, I would also prefer the Primordial Magic's Increase to max Hand size and improved CA myself.

[notmikehill]

It all depends on the board and scenario you have. I would use the totem if my opponent has the Treasure Hunt strategy to keep the WP duels coming when you force the opponent to beat the severe terrain pulse. Also, models activating with slow in base contact do make the poltergeist a high threat especially in that situation.

Primordial Magic I consider using in games where you want to have a higher hand and trying to get the Crows for her mental anguish trigger. Also, with Lilith drawing 8 cards a turn is just plain nasty.

[Placidemu]

Totems are incredibly situational and honestly all totems have a point where they are necessary. I personally own both Primordial Magic and Poltergeist cause I find that they both have their advantages. When playing with Treasure hunt or Claim jump are on poltergeists ability to cause things to progress slower as well as adding WP duels to close range is nice (Also if you are fighting a melee based crew nice to have). I don't really use Primordial Magic all that much unless having that hand advantage is really necessary (Though with a Doppleganger on the board hand advantages aren't always that important.) Usually though I just don't field a totem with Pandora because the SS's with her do wonders . But yeah.... my two cents.

[Q'iq'el]

I think the rule of the thumb is that the universal totem provides a minor buff to the entire faction, whichever master you take. Clearly 7-card Control Hand is beneficial to any Neverborn master, as they all have ways to gain additional cards.

However master-specific totems bring for their master a very useful tool you cannot get elsewhere. Once you figure how to use that tool, you probably won't want to use the universal totem all that often.

[karn987]

I think the rule of the thumb is that the universal totem provides a minor buff to the entire faction, whichever master you take. Clearly 7-card Control Hand is beneficial to any Neverborn master, as they all have ways to gain additional cards.

However master-specific totems bring for their master a very useful tool you cannot get elsewhere. Once you figure how to use that tool, you probably won't want to use the universal totem all that often.

They all have ways to get Additional Cards? Whats Pandora's and the Dreamers? They don't have one =P

Nit picking aside, I like Pandora's due to the activation control it can give you. But honestly.... I'd rather have the 2ss with her as there are times its just to critical you win the duel.

[Q'iq'el]

They all have ways to get Additional Cards? Whats Pandora's and the Dreamers? They don't have one =P

Nit picking aside, I like Pandora's due to the activation control it can give you. But honestly.... I'd rather have the 2ss with her as there are times its just to critical you win the duel.

Hmm, I don't play Pandora and I remembered one of her crew's triggers wrongly (it discards the opponent card, not draws one for her, you are right).

Does it mean the Primordial Magic is useless to Pandora, or does it mean she can draw 7 or 8 (in a Brawl) cards in the Drawing Phase?

The wording in "The Game" section suggests we draw to the game's maximum Hand size, not the crew's maximum Hand Size so my first thought is even with Primordial Magic she can only get 6 cards in her Hand... but that seems wrong from the design point of view.

[semanticdm]

Hmm, I don't play Pandora and I remembered one of her crew's triggers wrongly (it discards the opponent card, not draws one for her, you are right).

Does it mean the Primordial Magic is useless to Pandora, or does it mean she can draw 7 or 8 (in a Brawl) cards in the Drawing Phase?

The wording in "The Game" section suggests we draw to the game's maximum Hand size, not the crew's maximum Hand Size so my first thought is even with Primordial Magic she can only get 6 cards in her Hand... but that seems wrong from the design point of view.

It's not entirely worthless. I don't have the book with me, but going off of what's written: You draw 7 or 8 cards. That's 7 cards that you're looking at - not quite 15% of your deck. You have a higher chance of getting multiple 13s or the red joker, and you also get any low cards out of your deck and hand for the turn. I have no problem drawing 7 cards and discarding a 2 or two from my hand.

[Csonti]

Now that Incite/Pacify works on enemy only a totem is literally a must if you want to give early speed to Pandy.

Look at this trick Ropetus has come up with.

[karn987]

Now that Incite/Pacify works on enemy only a totem is literally a must if you want to give early speed to Pandy.

Look at this trick Ropetus has come up with.

Yeah thats an old trick, but a cheap one. I personally don't like to play the cheesy Pandora. You don't need to to actually win. Personally I think It comes down to a matter of preference, but I prefer not to play the cheesy style that everyone will hate to play against. Hense none of my tactica or posts ever mention these tactics.

I honestly wish they would Errata Pandora to remove these dirty tricks so she could get back some of her cred. Make it so she only pushes if she wins a Wp duel caused from an enemy source. It wouldn't weaken her one bit, it would actually make her more fair. WOuld be much better then Cuddling sorrows >.> *grumbles*

Also, since Primordial magic increases your max hand size you draw up to your max hand size. So you would draw up to 7 =D

[Csonti]

Yeah thats an old trick, but a cheap one. I personally don't like to play the cheesy Pandora. You don't need to to actually win. Personally I think It comes down to a matter of preference, but I prefer not to play the cheesy style that everyone will hate to play against. Hense none of my tactica or posts ever mention these tactics.

I doubt it's an "old" one. Since the need of speed arrised only after the fairly new errata part. Before that there was no reason to think about tricks, just Incite/Pacify your own models like hell...

I can agree with you that this is cheesy but there are several situations when you simply don't have any other chance to stay in the game.

For example you'd be toasted in a Treasure Hunt scenario against a fast army on a dense map with diagonal or even corner setup.

[karn987]

I doubt it's an "old" one. Since the need of speed arrised only after the fairly new errata part. Before that there was no reason to think about tricks, just Incite/Pacify your own models like hell...

I can agree with you that this is cheesy but there are several situations when you simply don't have any other chance to stay in the game.

For example you'd be toasted in a Treasure Hunt scenario against a fast army on a dense map with diagonal or even corner setup.

Heh no it is infact old. Its popped up several times in the past but its never been heavily mentioned because well... its cheesy and you can win without it ;D. I think its on one of the old Pandora Tactica threads to... I don't remember that 100%. But that's beside the point.

The old speed glitches she had were just a mistake any way, a lot of people didn't even use them starting out and still Pandora was one of the strongest masters. Just inciting and Pacifying enemy models was more then good enough (its only a 3'x3' board after all) so you could easily cover the distance. I've never had to use it and she dominates most any game including Treasure Hunt on a dense map without it. Its not necessary at all and probably should just be errated away because well... its cheesy and cheap.

What other situations would she face where that was her only chance to stay in the game? Because I can't come up with a single one off the top of my head besides Treasure hunt and someone running up and stealing it first (which Im betting will be errataed soon, or maybe book 2 will have a change). But if you get Treasure hunt, just switch to Lilith or take a few Slurids *shrugs*. Its better then resorting to being cheesy in my mind. Or just take schemes to make up the lost points and trounce the enemy. Few crews can actually stand up to her in combat after all.

Edited August 7, 2010 by karn987