Hatchethead Posted April 28, 2010 Report Share Posted April 28, 2010 (edited) Two quick things: 1. Schemes. When would a player NOT take the maximum number of Schemes permitted by the size of the game (2 or 3)? I mean, besides avoiding Thwart? (( EDIT: I realize now that Thwart applies to Strats and not Schemes, thanks Lucidicide. )) So ... one should always take max Schemes, unannounced or otherwise. Right? 2. Multiple Masters in a Brawl. Generally, are the 10 additional Soulstones considered a worthwhile trade-off compared to a second Master with their own cache of stones? I look at a guy like Leveticus who can only join with Ramos, or Som'er Teeth who can only side with Zoraida (are there others I have missed?). If the player doesn't own and therefore cannot field the legal counterpart, will they be at a major disadvantage during a Brawl facing two enemy Masters? I simply wonder what the general consensus is. Cheers! Edited April 29, 2010 by Hatchethead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucidicide Posted April 28, 2010 Report Share Posted April 28, 2010 I'm fairly certain Thwart only applies to strategies, not schemes, so it wouldn't be a reason to avoid it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIT_91 Posted April 28, 2010 Report Share Posted April 28, 2010 1. Because some of the schemes can be kept hidden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucidicide Posted April 28, 2010 Report Share Posted April 28, 2010 1. Because some of the schemes can be kept hidden. I'm confused as to how that addresses the question. In any case, assuming I'm correct about Thwart, I don't see any reason not to take the max schemes. It's just possible extra points in case you get thrown off one of the others. I don't see any downside to taking more, it's not like you lose points for taking them. I didn't respond to #2 because I've not played any games that large. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eusebe Posted April 28, 2010 Report Share Posted April 28, 2010 The viks could rather stay alone, just to avoid wasting 5 soulstones to hire them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sliver Chocobo Posted April 28, 2010 Report Share Posted April 28, 2010 Here a question If used lilith and vikotora as my second master can i use both the outcast and neverborn schemes. i see no reson not to, but i just wanted to ask Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchethead Posted April 28, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2010 (edited) I'm fairly certain Thwart only applies to strategies, not schemes, so it wouldn't be a reason to avoid it. Oh snap, does Thwart apply to Strategies? My read-fu is weak (original post edited). As it stands, there's no downside to failing a Scheme. They represent potential VPs, zero risk. Lucidicide is correct; selecting the legal maximum appears to be the obvious, optimal approach. There's no reason NOT to. Is this by design? Or is there something I've failed to consider? Edited April 29, 2010 by Hatchethead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchethead Posted May 1, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2010 :bump: Apologies for the bump. I realize the content of this thread is extremely relative. Even so, I hope a veteran player (or two) will weigh in with some personal experience. The max Schemes issue seems fairly cut and dry, at least for now. Always select max Schemes, otherwise you deny yourself potential VPs. Case closed. Beyond that ... There are several wanna-be Malifaux players in my group interested in Masters that don't play well with others; both Som'er Teeth and Leveticus. Our group enjoys large games, there will be Brawls. The issue is, most of these guys don't care for their Master's "big game" counterpart: Som'er Teeth w/ Zoraida ("I can see her BOOBS!"), Leveticus w/ Ramos ("the old fart and his spiders"). The majority feel that 1 Master + 10 Soulstones is a poor trade compared to 2 Masters w/ caches ... keep in mind, our shared Malifaux experience consists of three demo games, a proxy match, pouring over our (my) single copy of the rules and lurking/spamming the forums (me again). Some steely-eyed wisdom from a long time player would be appreciated. Should these guys expect an uphill battle taking a single Master into a Brawl? I'd love to convince them otherwise. I'm also interested on a less specific level. A Brawl with McM + 10 might be fun, assuming it's viable. Again, I realize it's relative. I'd hesitate to take Nico + 10 when I could have Nico + McM and end up with only 4 less stones. The smaller the cache of the secondary Master, the more attractive the +10 proposition becomes. Is that noob of me? Am I underestimating the value of 4ss? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hookers Posted May 4, 2010 Report Share Posted May 4, 2010 yeah it says the available ss gets bumped by 10, so I don't know if thats still limited to 10 for the brawl or not. If not then it might actually be worth it. So you'd get your master's cache in addition to the 10 and not be limited to just 10 and potentially wasting some. Or maybe then put that in there specifically for the outcasts masters that don't play well with others as they all have a cache of 0. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted May 4, 2010 Report Share Posted May 4, 2010 Victoria can ally with sommer teeth. And I don't think the 10 stones is ever worth it. The second master is almost always better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warlorddawg Posted May 5, 2010 Report Share Posted May 5, 2010 And I don't think the 10 stones is ever worth it. The second master is almost always better. I'd have to agree, played a battle yesterday with Perdita and the extra 10 SS vs. my McM and Nicodem. (of course it helps that I made up the force difference pretty quick) A second master probably would have helped Perdita out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchethead Posted May 5, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2010 Victoria can ally with sommer teeth. Can she (they)? I don't have my book, lent it to a friend interested in Malifaux. I was under the impression that Som'er was restricted to Zoraida by one of his abilities ... Good ol' Boy, maybe? (can't remember!) If I'm wrong, great. Our potential Gremlin player will be pleased. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted May 5, 2010 Report Share Posted May 5, 2010 Can she (they)? I don't have my book, lent it to a friend interested in Malifaux. I was under the impression that Som'er was restricted to Zoraida by one of his abilities ... Good ol' Boy, maybe? (can't remember!) If I'm wrong, great. Our potential Gremlin player will be pleased. Yeah, positive. I'm too lazy to get up and get my book, but I've played my gremlins quite a bit. Good old boys specifically says, "in scraps." If you're playing a brawl, well, it's not a scrap. So Sommer can ally with Zoraida or another outcast master. However, he can't ally with Leveticus due to Leveticus's hiring restrictions, so that leaves the Victorias. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchethead Posted May 5, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2010 Yeah, positive. Confirmed (not that I doubted you). Crews containing Som'er are restricted to Gremlin and Pig models during Scraps. During Brawls, he can join Zoraida or Outcast crews (at the moment, that means Viktoria for an additional 5ss). Good to know. We obviously misread the entry for Good ol' Boys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted May 6, 2010 Report Share Posted May 6, 2010 Confirmed (not that I doubted you). Crews containing Som'er are restricted to Gremlin and Pig models during Scraps. During Brawls, he can join Zoraida or Outcast crews (at the moment, that means Viktoria for an additional 5ss). Good to know. We obviously misread the entry for Good ol' Boys. You know, I just realized...sommer can take the desolation engine... "This crew may only hire gremlin and pig models during scraps." So, during brawls he follows the usual rules for hiring. Strictly RAW, you could play Sommer alone with the +10 soul stones and use mercenaries or the desolation engine. Or you could ally him and Zoraida in a brawl and take the engine.... Hmmm... Alright, that said, you should warn your friend that the sommer/vicky combo kinda sucks, especially when compared to Zoraida. Look at it this way: with Victoria not only do you not get +10 stones for not taking a master, she takes 5 from you. So she costs you 15 soul stones. Zoraida denies you the +10 stones, but has a cache of 5, so she essentially costs 5 soul stones. Zoraids "costs" three times less for sommer in a brawl, and they have better synergy together and she offers up a wider range of models to choose from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talishko Posted May 6, 2010 Report Share Posted May 6, 2010 Don't forget the new masters coming out with the new book. That might help gremlin players a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadArcanist Posted May 6, 2010 Report Share Posted May 6, 2010 I think new masters will help everyone out (I wanna find a better match to Sonnia then just Lady J or Perdita >.<) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchethead Posted May 6, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2010 (edited) Alright, that said, you should warn your friend that the sommer/vicky combo kinda sucks, especially when compared to Zoraida. I'll be sure to mention it, though I have a feeling he would gravitate toward Zoraida before Vicky, regardless. More themey. Don't forget the new masters coming out with the new book. That might help gremlin players a bit. Fingers crossed for Book 2 and Errata 2.0. Hopefully they offer the Gremlins a leg up. Thankfully, my friend has a sense of humor about his Gremlins (I forwarded him several tactica threads). He's just that kind of player. It'll be some time before he becomes genuinely frustrated ... but it'll happen eventually. It's inevitable. Balance would be appreciated. Edited May 6, 2010 by Hatchethead busted quotes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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