How often do your Nephilim actually "Mature"?

[DangerousBeans]

I'm about to start using a Lilith crew, and was just wondering how often your tots turn into teens and teens turn into Daddies? Is it worth while picking up another blister of each? the 35ss list I'm considering is (probably pretty typical):

(35ss)

Lilith w/6ss

Mature Neph

2 x Young Neph

3 x tots

Cherub

cheers

[wrabbit37]

The first game I played (starter Lilith vs. starter Predita), I got one of my Tots to go to a Younger, then to a Mature. Most games now, though, I'm getting a single Tot to a Younger, and sometimes a second one. I rarely get a Younger to a Mature. I own two Mature, two Younger, and three Tots and I've never had a problem with trying to create something I didn't own.

[Atticus]

I haven't had a great deal of luck getting them to mature. A Tot to a Young is typically all I can get and often only one of those. I've yet to have a Young survive to grow into a Mature. I haven't played Lility a lot lately though. I bought an additional Mature and another pack of Tots. I like running the swarm of Tots to just try and out activate my opponent. Also, running two Matures is brutal. I did that a fair amount at 35ss before the young models came out.

[Monkeyclops]

Have 2 games under my belt and in both games I managed to grow a Terror to a Young and the to a Mature. Playing again tonight and have a tourney on Sat. Will post with how things went with those!

[AceOfSpades]

I never had luck with maturing one, but in a 25 ss game I run Lillith with 4 youngs and an extra Soul Stone. Fly+double move makes them awesome at nabbing objectives in the last couple turns.

---Rusty

[dwbailey]

So Far we have been running mainly 30pt games where I tend to take 2 tots, a youth, and a mature. (plus Baby Cade because he is just fun) I have matured at least once in every game, whether from tot to young or young to mature. The nice thing about the young is he only needs one mask to mature so you just need a big card in your hand to cheat with and suit doesn't matter. Now often my youth may die and then I grow a tot to replace him. I have also found that 2 mature, 2 yutes, and 3 tots are enough, but if we start going to higher point games, and I want to stick with Nephilim instead of adding Teddy I may need more.

Just my 2 cents and very much still learning the game.

[Monkeyclops]

So I jinx'd myself and in the 4 games after my post above (including 3 games in a tourney). I did not grow or mature a single model.

Although, the tourney was a Starter Box tourney and my 1st 2 games were vs Rasputina, whose constructs don't give me blood counters. Also, I did not realize that if a model with a Blood Counter dies the counter drops and one of my Nephilim could go pick it up. So I likely would of grown a tot into a Young in each of those 3 games.

Over the weekend my friends and I played a 2v2, in that one Lilith gained 3 Blood Counters and on turn 4 I finally got a high Mask in my hand and managed to Grow and Mature a Tot into a Mature and then use melee expert to make a strike

[Atticus]

Also, I did not realize that if a model with a Blood Counter dies the counter drops and one of my Nephilim could go pick it up.

Yeah, I was surprised by that ruling also. It might have had an impact on my success at growing and maturing the Nephilim. My opponents have wisely focused on the Nephilim with blood counters in the past. That rule would limit that strategy somewhat.

[Trash]

I have also found that 2 mature, 2 yutes, and 3 tots are enough,

(Enter "My cousin Vinny" Mode)

Did you say "Yutes"?

[ook-productions]

I have had about a 50/50 experience when maturing tots to younger, no younger to mature yet.

Of course if you were in a higher SS game and wanted to be a little diabolical and evil, take a lot of tots and a mature and have the mature attack and kill one or more of your tots. You get the blood counters and Mature doesn't take damage from black blood because of his Armor. Or just have tots attack each other as with the new errata when a tot grows into a younger the new model has all its wounds.

[Q'iq'el]

Of course if you were in a higher SS game and wanted to be a little diabolical and evil, take a lot of tots and a mature and have the mature attack and kill one or more of your tots. You get the blood counters and Mature doesn't take damage from black blood because of his Armor.

Isn't Mature Nephilim, being a Neverborn, immune to black blood by definition?

[ook-productions]

Yes you're right, any neverborn model is immune to the effects of black blood.

[Ropetus]

Of course if you were in a higher SS game and wanted to be a little diabolical and evil, take a lot of tots and a mature and have the mature attack and kill one or more of your tots. You get the blood counters and Mature doesn't take damage from black blood because of his Armor. Or just have tots attack each other as with the new errata when a tot grows into a younger the new model has all its wounds.

What would be the point of that? Doing that won't save you anything. Tots cost 3 stones and for the cost of two you could bring in a Young Nephilim which you don't need to grow up. No sense taking two and killing one to produce counters to grow.

-Ropetus

[Joona]

Exactly. It's cheaper to change soulstones to blood counters with Lilith to grow your Tots. If you can manage to play without too many stones. Maturing the young ones is where it gets tough if the opponent isn't Gremlins.

[DangerousBeans]

I got my first game with Lilith in a couple of weks ago. Turned stones to blood first turn and the tot following Lilith consistently failed to cast "Grow", it was most frustrating!

[Ropetus]

I got my first game with Lilith in a couple of weks ago. Turned stones to blood first turn and the tot following Lilith consistently failed to cast "Grow", it was most frustrating!

That's why you only try it when you have the correct card in your hand.

-Ropetus

[Monkeyclops]

Yea, you need a 9 of :masks or better, which means there is only 6 cards in the deck, including the red joker, that will allow you to Grow. That means you have about an 11% chance of growing on the casting flip. Your best bet is to cheat it when you draw one of these 6 cards!

[Dynamix]

Now the models became available , last game , having just added the 2 new Young to my Neph crew I managed to grow a tot first try , but couldnt attempt to mature a young ' un as the 2 Blood Counters then available were on different models , and the ' mature ' wording implies 2 counters need to be on the same model , so tried to grow a tot and failed , so 1 success and 1 fail so far with grow .

Mature seems pretty hard , as I guess it should be .

I picked up 6 more tots , 2 more Youngs , and another mature at a show last week , looks like I have more than enough models available now !

[Q'iq'el]

Mature seems pretty hard , as I guess it should be .

Actually I find Mature much easier than Grow.

It's true Terror Tots need only one counter to mature, but they also have pretty drastic card requirements - you practically need 9+ Mask in your Control Cards to pull it off reliably.

Comparing to that you can Mature a Young with any high card, because it doesn't need the extra mask.

Having to collect two Blood Counters on one model is a limitation, but not a sever one. Models can pass counters to each other and the model most likely to have a counter is Lilith herself - and she can Draw Blood from Stone should she lack one counter to help a Young Nephilim mature.

[tenabrae]

Agreed there, hitting mature is much easier... I've rarely done it, I find I can usually have the tots hanging in the background till they get the right card by which time Lilith and the Mature usually take care of business (the mature dying early on usually to distract the enemy while lilly gets in position).

[Q'iq'el]

Agreed there, hitting mature is much easier... I've rarely done it, I find I can usually have the tots hanging in the background till they get the right card by which time Lilith and the Mature usually take care of business (the mature dying early on usually to distract the enemy while lilly gets in position).

I use my Terror Tots as diversion/cannon fodder. They have reasonably good defense and they can run really fast (especially if you have some spare mask control cards and can sprint them ahead), so whenever there's some terrain objective to control (or table quarters) I sprint them ahead and put behind some sort of cover (not hard to hide such small models). That in turn makes the opponent nervous and if he splits his troops, Lilith and her Young/Mature Nephilim have easier task.

I'm playing only 25 SS bracket right now (just started) and I've recently started to run 3 TT, 2 YN and Lilith with 8 SS. That way Lilith can really risk it and is quite likely to mature at least one YN, while losing TT is not much of an issue at all... and if I get lucky I may get a YN off one of them.

Either way YN->MN happens, for me, at least once per battle, sometimes twice. TT->YN happens only from time to time and usually no more than once per battle.

[Dynamix]

Models can pass counters to each other

Thanks for the comments .

I am particularly interested in the passing of counters, and wonder how this works as I can find no reference to being able to do this , except by a model dying and leaving counters that can be picked up by another model .

[tenabrae]

I use my Terror Tots as diversion/cannon fodder. They have reasonably good defense and they can run really fast (especially if you have some spare mask control cards and can sprint them ahead)' date=' so whenever there's some terrain objective to control (or table quarters) I sprint them ahead and put behind some sort of cover (not hard to hide such small models). That in turn makes the opponent nervous and if he splits his troops, Lilith and her Young/Mature Nephilim have easier task.[/quote']

I generally like to run the tots forward, transpose the mature and alpha strike, leaving the mature to distract the enemy till it dies... hopefully it's got a blood and a tot can come near and mature OR it absorbs most of an enemy turn giving lilith time to move in... transposing enemy models can be hilarious... especially if you use the cherub to do it (casts as well as lily)

[Q'iq'el]

Thanks for the comments .

I am particularly interested in the passing of counters, and wonder how this works as I can find no reference to being able to do this , except by a model dying and leaving counters that can be picked up by another model .

I must say I simply extrapolated it from the rules. Models may always pick up counters on the table and it costs them nothing. There's no way to trace which models carry which counters or even which counters are carried and which are simply stepped upon, as the counters are on the table in base contact with the models (and it may be quite a mess in a larger skirmish).

Because counters are on the table even when a model carries them, I see nothing against another model simply picking them up (as long as it has base contact with the counter) and taking them somewhere else. Obviously I never allowed opponents to pick up such counters, but I think it's quite a "natural" thing to do within the team.

Perhaps it's taking the interpretation too far though.

As to alpha striking and transposition... I find it very deadly if I can transpose opponent model towards myself, possibly ganking him with Lilith and her group, but I do not transpose my Mature Nephilim forward anymore. I don't even take him in the group nowadays (but mature YN instead). MN is very powerful, but his defenses are rather weak. Boosted Punk Zombies with their Cb 9 (buffed) simply tear him a new one, especially if they have enough points to flurry. It's, as far as I'm concerned, too expensive a model to risk. If it appears in the middle of a combat, it can completely mess up opponents plan with the wing buffet, Knock Aside or Rip in Half... and whoever stays in combat will still have to take the tests when they activate (another reason to wait with bringing him into play, till you are in combat with some living models).

[Monkeyclops]

I must say I simply extrapolated it from the rules. Models may always pick up counters on the table and it costs them nothing. There's no way to trace which models carry which counters or even which counters are carried and which are simply stepped upon, as the counters are on the table in base contact with the models (and it may be quite a mess in a larger skirmish).

Because counters are on the table even when a model carries them, I see nothing against another model simply picking them up (as long as it has base contact with the counter) and taking them somewhere else. Obviously I never allowed opponents to pick up such counters, but I think it's quite a "natural" thing to do within the team.

Perhaps it's taking the interpretation too far though.

I think you're a bit off on this. 1st off, only models that can use the counters can pick them up.

More importantly, when you are carrying a counter it is not on the table. When you pick a counter up it is removed from the table and should be placed on the models stat card that picked it up to signify it is carrying that counter. When a model carrying counters is removed from the table (killed, sacrificed, buried) they drop all carried counters in a pile where they were standing.

As far as I know there is no way to transfer a counter from one model to another unless the model carrying the counter has a special ability, like the Vulture.