New Players Thoughts

[artificer]

So I'm new here (apart from the car-wreck that was getting my first order thread).

Looking at the book, game and minis from the position of an outsider, but one who has gamed on and off for almost 30 years (yes, I am older than dirt), here are a few initial observations. I hope to update these as I explore the rules book, gaming aids, and minis as I go.

The Bad.

The Rules Book.

1) somewhat inconsistent visual imagery. I LOVE the Sepia line drawings of individual masters as voodoo dolls. The colour work tends to vary wildly, which I feel hurts the overall effect a little. Some are very Anime inspired, others more 'American Comic', still others slightly more life inspired. Just a little jarring for those who tend to notice that sort of thing. Especially when they occur inside of a given faction.

2) Continuity. I like all my rules together. Insert the fluff elsewhere. For new players looking to build a gestalt for the game, it really breaks the flow of the text to have to skip 3-5 pages to continue the rules for each little section.

Minis

3) Bat-Sh*t crazy mould lines. My first box has 3 sets on Baby Kade. Two on Candy and Pandora. It's like the original master was ruined and they re-cast a secondary mould. This apparently happened at least once, if not twice for Kade.

4) 14 pages of errata?, really, already?

The Good.

Rule Book

1) Excellent appendix. Nice indexing. Good, solid clear rules. Most of the errata was pretty minor stuff.

2) Great appearance. The book LOOKS cool. The overall imagery for the game/universe is nice and solid. With more consistent artwork/visual direction, this would be even cooler.

3) Minis. That's why I'm here.

The stuff is very cool. I love the 32mm, slightly elongated proportions of the humanoid minis. It gives them a slightly hungry, desperate quality. The exceptions all seem to be planned for effect, so +100 here. It's rare that minis => art, but you guys have really nailed it.

4) Fun factor of the game.

I've not played much yet, but the 'interactivity' of each turn, the ability to cheat against your opponent really aids in your BEING there, even during your opponents turns. This makes for a very interactive, smack-talky game (which I love, 'cause I'm a loud-mouth).

5) Story line to date.

Cool. Plain and simple. I love where it's going.

6) Web-zine. Again, nothing but gold. Game nerds LOVE more fodder for their obsession, and I'm no exception. I LOVE reading more little tidbits about the world, characters, etc.

7) 14 pages of errata.... I know, it's a DIYD,DIYD situation. I love that you are actively correcting situations as they occur. I'm still gonna give you a little smack for not catching them in play test or editing.

Seriously, this game is cool looking, fun, and addictive. I hope you don't take this as personal or as overly abrasive. I'm here after one look at your tre's-cool figs, and the general mechanic of the game (dice hate me).

Keep up the great work.

Edited January 30, 2010 by artificer

[Joona]

7) 14 pages of errata.... I know, it's a DIYD,DIYD situation. I love that you are actively correcting situations as they occur. I'm still gonna give you a little smack for not catching them in play test or editing.

I know you are probably not serious but I have never seen a game that did not get an errata at some point (or a new edition of rules, reprint with corrected rules etc. etc). And if a certain game did not get an errata, most of the time it would still have needed one. The community and game designers discussing things here on the forums are probably the reason we have that huge errata already. I for one would rather take a huge errata over gentlemanly discussion in middle of a game on how a rule should be interpreted in some situation.

Each of us players is such an ass when there is a possibility to find a completely game breaking combo.

[ispep]

I pretty much agree, except two things. The models I've put together (except the Warpig, which was more poor fitting than mold lines/flash) have been exceptionally clean compared to models from other companies.

And the appendix/glossary. Its a nice start, but very much lacking. Almost every time I look for something there, it isn't there.

[Hapless Peon]

It's great to give feedback but I think in some of these cases you have either got unlucky or something is simply not to your taste.

The Imagery, yes it varies but I don't think it's any different from many other manufacturers works. Multiple artists, all trying to nail down the look and feel of the world will use different styles to see what works. I love the artwork and think the different styles is great. I think of the old GW books with very different styles all through it.

The Fluff, I can see why it bothered you but I personally think it is a great idea to break up the rules with the fluff. As I was doing my first read through it was nice to alternate a rules section with the evolving story. to each their own I guess.

The Mould lines, think you just got unlucky. I have had very few issues with mould lines/flash and many of my regular games group have found the same. Some have required more removal than others but that happens. I have found other manufacturers to be far worse.

The Errata, you can't fault them for being comprehensive. I think some games keep the erratas/FAQ small to avoid looking like the system has too many flaws. This leads to the problem of leaving many issues unresolved/unanswered. Also, this is the first edition of a brand new game there were bound to be issues that needed to be clarified.

I don't mean to nit-pick your nit-pick and your criticisms are valid. I would just disagree as my experience has been markedly different.

[thetang22]

I think Mold lines are much more an unlucky accident that happens about as much with any company as the rest.

Over the years I've bought lots of minis from GW, Rackham, Reaper, and Wyrd (with some other random companies here and there). I have never noticed one company consistently having more mold lines than the rest.

One thing I will say though....regardless of the company, they have almost always happened worse on my favorite miniatures than any others. For instance, I was a big fan of the Red Lioness on foot by Rackham. I finally got one, and she's got a big nasty mold line right across her face. Then it extended down through all the tiny filigree of her armor...now tell me that aint a bitch.

I honestly don't think any companies are generally worse than others when it comes to mold lines.....it just happens most when you really don't want it in my experience.

[pariah]

Just got my first crew box(Viktorias), and really have no problems w/mould lines. But to be honest I`ve been painting minis for so long, its not really an issue, as anyone who cares (some don`t),knows how to deal. As far as the rules go, does anyone remember the first Confrontation rules. WOW. translation probs or what? Thanks for triggering a response. Keep up the good(?) work.

[artificer]

I know you are probably not serious but I have never seen a game that did not get an errata at some point

It was sort of tongue in cheek, that's why it's listed in both bad and good. Bad(ish) that they've reached 14pgs in 6 months, good that they've done what's been needed.

Of course, I played "Rogue Trader" (the earliest version of 40K) so if I can deal with THAT mess, I can handle anything.

It's great to give feedback but I think in some of these cases you have either got unlucky or something is simply not to your taste.

The Imagery... I think of the old GW books with very different styles all through it.

The Fluff, I can see why it bothered you but I personally think it is a great idea to break up the rules with the fluff.

I don't know that I'd use GW as a benchmark for any sort of consistency at all, especially visual. I certainly don't mind different styles for different sections, or different factions, or books, but it's odd to see one master illustrated one way, and on the facing page another master is WILDLY different, stylistically. Again, I spent a lot of time in art and design, so it may just be me. It's not like it's a deal breaker, but with a little tighter art direction, the feel of the book might be tighter.

As for rules/fluff/rules/fluff... I don't mind the occasional break from rules for storyline, but it's almost every 10 pages of rules there are 4 pages of story. I'm more than willing to believe it's personal preference, but to me at least, it doesn't aid in 'getting it'.

One thing I will say though....regardless of the company, they have almost always happened worse on my favorite miniatures than any others.

That was my experience here. Kade, the tiniest mini of the bunch, has 2 sets of mould likes, the worst of which runs right down Kade's face, down the teddy bear's leg right along/through the stitches. At it's worst, it's nearly a 1mm step across the mould line. Kade is too cool, and along with Candy, the reason I went Neverborn.

I should have added originally that there was very little flash, and on the sorrows especially, things were very neat and clean overall. It's just a bummer that on the minis with the smoothest finishes, I got the mould lines.

[Sturm88]

Errata after such a short time is the key isse here with artificer, not just errata.

Honestly, from my brief life here with Malifaux there is still a great deal of errata or just better wordsmithing that seems to be done. I think more the latter. Inconsistancy and rules lapping seems to still have a small foothold.

Honestly, nothing new for a "newish" game nor is unacceptable by anymeans. Hell, how long did WM players have to put up with Haley and Sorscha?