EricJ Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 (edited) These 3 changes have been added to the errata thread, but I wanted to start posting these things in a place people could reply if they wanted. These address a couple issues that have come up and is a slight change to 1 model to be more in line with what was intended, and the soul stone costs for the model: Page 21: Totems Add to the end of the Totem Description: If a master is listed in the Totem characteristic, this is the only master the totem may be connected to. Page 45: Search Action: Remove the (all) Search action and replace with: (all) Scavenge: Scavengers Only. The model gains 1 scrap counter. Page 157: Sabertooth Add to the end of the description for the spell Roar: This is a Morale Duel. Thanks! Eric Edited September 10, 2009 by EricJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AoM Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 graver robbers losing Search is going to help reign in the excessive summoning of the undead. and it makes models with search-like abilities more valuable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricJ Posted September 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 That's the idea! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zee Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 Awwwww Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hannibal Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 Sweet! Thanks! So, uh, can P'Loc blow himself up yet? :flute: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kealios Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 Page 157: Sabertooth Add to the end of the description for the spell Roar: This is a Morale Duel. Nice. Now Undead and Constructs and Spirits are Immune to the Roar, BUT it can use its own Smell Fear! On that note, maybe make a note that the cat may Charge a model it is still in Base to base/melee range with if this trigger goes off... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavic Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 Page 45: Search Action: Remove the (all) Search action and replace with: (all) Scavenge: Scavengers Only. The model gains 1 scrap counter. Glad to see this change, though I have to admit that I wonder if it will make the resurrectionists too weak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nilus Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 Glad to see this change, though I have to admit that I wonder if it will make the resurrectionists too weak. I think they will be okay. You still have Mortimer and Sebastian's abilities to make corpse tokens/body parts. Plus the nature of the game means there really are no shortages of corpse tokens usually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orius Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 (edited) i dont understand the graverobber change? The summon factory needed to be fixed for sure but why not just neuter the dogs? they were the problem. Dont let them dig, but why stop sebastian and mortimer or the warmasters from digging? if a guy wants to use a 7-8 pt model or his master to dig every turn who am I to stop him, it was the issue with the 2 pt dogs doing it. besides the only scavenger in the game that would use search is Leveticus since ramos has his own special version, and meviticus i dont think is going to waste time digging when he can kill things and turn them into what he wants counters for anyway. Its an economy kill and saves a step! i dont think this issue needs as quite a drastic knee jerk as what your proposing... Edited September 10, 2009 by orius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royal Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 i dont understand the graverobber change? The summon factory needed to be fixed for sure but why not just neuter the dogs? they were the problem. Dont let them dig, but why stop sebastian and mortimer or the warmasters from digging? if a guy wants to use a 7-8 pt model or his master to dig every turn who am I to stop him, it was the issue with the 2 pt dogs doing it. I am curious to know as well because much like Orius I felt the dogs were the real issue due to the cheap ness they were vs the body counter they produced was a very strong combination in one model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nilus Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 Technically Sebastian and Mortimer can still get corpse counters(or body parts for Sebs). As they both have spells that do it as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricJ Posted September 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 The reason is because there will be a lot more development in the Resurrectionist faction, and a lot more models over time who will gain the gravedigger characteristic. We could fix the dogs now, but then need to place the same rule on every other future model, or we can go with making corpse generation something special that was really a benefit for the models who have it. If this is something we would have had to work around every time we want to make a model who can use a corpse in some way (something requiring the Gravedigger characteristic), we would have a majority of those models needing a special rule stating they can't do a basic action. Right now we have the dogs at 2 points, and the zombie chihuahua at 1 point who can dig up corpses. Thematically it makes a lot more sense that there is scrap metal laying all around, a lot more so than just bodies laying around (although admittedly there are probably quite a few in Malifaux). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfen Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 Nicodem, I barely knew thee... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kealios Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 I personally think its a good change, and corpses are generated alot more easily than scrap counters are anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavic Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 Still, it sounds like the resurrectionists might be getting the shaft until these new models appear. Admittedly, the dogs were a serious issue, but I am still fearful that the resurrectionists might have serious game play issues for a while with this change. Out of curiosity, was any playtesting done with this new errata before issuing it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redstripe Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 Out of curiosity, was any playtesting done with this new errata before issuing it? There is always extensive playtesting going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricJ Posted September 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 I'm happy to discuss the reasons for a change and concerns about the Resurrectionist power level. Lets take a look at the current list of models in the Resurrectionists faction with the Gravedigger ability who are affected by this change, and how this rule applies to them McMourning - Can generate his own body parts FAR more efficiently than using an ALL to search, and is far too important in a crew to do nothing for a turn Nicodem - Far too important to do this except in a VERY rare case Seamus - same as Nicodem Zombie Chihuahua - 1 point model, generating corpses is too powerful Canine Remains - 2 point model, generating corpses is too powerful Mortimer - Specifically balanced with his own corpse generating mechanism Sebasitian - Has a spell to generate body parts, in addition to a trigger. Balanced with this in mind. That's all of them. Essentially what we're doing is de-linking corpse generation from the basic graverobber characteristic, and making models rely on the talents and spells they were balanced with. The only models to truly be affected are the Canine Remains and Zombie Chihuahua, who I think were out of line with balance when given this ability, and instead became a destabilizing gimmick. With this de-linked, we have the ability to do far more in terms of future models and the the gravedigger characteristic, and avoid this problem coming up over and over. As it is, with this change, the Res did not lose much, with only really the masters losing the ability to generate a corpse with an ALL action. You would be hard pressed to win an argument claiming that this adjusts their game play or power level in any significant way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orius Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 double post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orius Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 I follow your logic now for sure, especially since the fact mortimer and sebastian could dig and had spells to get counters it made it so one of which was redundant (in most cases the spell or ability) now it means people will actually maybe use them as they were meant to be played not sitting in the back digging up bodies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricJ Posted September 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 now it means people will actually maybe use them as they were meant to be played not sitting in the back digging up bodies. Exactly! that is the goal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hannibal Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 You know, I'm the first grouse when there's something I don't like, so it only seems right for me say thanks for being willing to make changes when you see problems. There's no way to say that without sounding like a fanboi, but it's true. I've met games designers who refuses to see a problem as it stared them in the face. So I'll say that 1) I think the change is a good one and 2) its cool that you're willing to take good, hard looks at your own creation for the warts. Now. . . Papa Loco . . ? Seriously, P'Loc needs to be able to blow himself up . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cain Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 Digging for corpses anywhere you want has always been a bit questionable to me. Diggin in graveyards or near tombstones in the landscape is ok, but diggin into copplestoned streets or inside a saloon? Never. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totengraber Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 Now. . . Papa Loco . . ? Seriously, P'Loc needs to be able to blow himself up . . . Can't he? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nilus Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 Can't he? No because the rules state that a model can not kill themselves(unless an ability says otherwise). So Papa Locos "take you with me" can only be used technically if he has 7 or more wounds. The problem lies in the fact that if Papa Loco could use "Take ya with me" to kill himself he essential gets to large blasts in a row(one for the spell and then one for his "BOOM" dieing ability). Personally I think the easiest fix for this would be a few added lines to the "Take you with me" spell that say 1) This can be used to kill Papa Loco but 2) If Papa Loco is killed by this spell, do not also "BOOM" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totengraber Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 Can someone cite where this rule is that a model cannot kill itself? I believe it exists and I kinda remember reading it somewhere, but I couldn't find it myself. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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