Ashes and Dust reformation in Corrupted Ley Lines

[Tiaden]

This is a more complicated situation that can happen surprisingly often.

Step 1: The strategy for the game is Corrupted Ley Lines.

Step 2: Ashes and Dust carries the Loadstone Token and is in touch with an unclaimed strategy marker.

Step 3: Ashes and Dust gets killed. The demise ability triggers and the loadstone token is now on the Ashen Core.

Step 4: The Dust Storm walks into base contact with the Ashen Core and performs the "Initiate Reformation" bonus Action.

Step 5: End of Turn happens and both the Ashen Core and Dust Storm are alive and still in base contact with each other.

Now the reformation happens in step A of the end phase. So before VP are scored. The Dust Storm has a Summon Token and was also Summoned this turn. The Summon Token is not a problem as you don't want to interact with the strategy markers. But the Dust Storm counts as being summoned this turn so would be ignored for the strategy. (According to Gaining Grounds 2 page 11.) Does this carry over to the Ashes and Dust that replaces the Dust Storm and Ashen Core?

If it doesn't carry over then the newly placed Ashes and Dust could claim the strategy marker. (Of course assumed it can be placed in base contact with it.)

If it does carry over, what happens to the Loadstone token? Does Ashes and Dust still carry the Loadstone Token, because he replaced the Ashen Core but doesn't claim the strategy marker because he was "summoned this turn" and is therefore ignored for the strategy? Does the Loadstone Token jump the the closes model that does count for the strategy, because the Ashes and Dust is ignored for the strategy and therefore cant carry a token that is from the strategy?

[santaclaws01]

All lasting game effects carry over, and the lodestone gets transferred as well, because that's what the replace rules say to do. Since the new Ashes and Dust is a summoned model and it was summoned that turn, it is ignored for the strategy so it can't claim the leyline.

[solkan]

7 hours ago, LaevusLevusXIII said:

I think it depends if you consider "being summoned this turn" a lasting game effect. The new ashes and dust isn't a summoned model, it's a replaced model, so it doesn't suffer from the ignored for strategy effect for this turn. It does attach the summon upgrade from the dust storm, but that's not the relevant part of the issue because it's not interacting.

Personally I would say you can score, logic being; because the "summoned models rule" (pg11 GG2) ignoring them for strat purposes is not a lasting game effect that carries over, it's a rule that checks if the model was summoned, and being summoned this turn is not a lasting gaming effect.

It depends how you classify lasting game effect though.

Being the crew’s leader is just as much a lasting game effect as “being summoned this turn”.  

It’s an effect that applies to the model that got replaced, and wasn’t covered by any of the previous steps, so it swapped over to the new model.

 

[LaevusLevusXIII]

I think it depends if you consider "being summoned this turn" a lasting game effect. The new ashes and dust isn't a summoned model, it's a replaced model, so it doesn't suffer from the ignored for strategy effect for this turn. It does attach the summon upgrade from the dust storm, but that's not the relevant part of the issue because it's not interacting.

Personally I would say you can score, logic being; because the "summoned models rule" (pg11 GG2) ignoring them for strat purposes is not a lasting game effect that carries over, it's a rule that checks if the model was summoned, and being summoned this turn is not a lasting gaming effect.

It depends how you classify lasting game effect though.

[LaevusLevusXIII]

"4. If the new and original models belong to the same Crew, one new model becomes the target of any effects that targeted or chose any original models, such as Schemes, Leader designation, or lasting game effects. That new model is always considered a legal target for those effects."

14 hours ago, solkan said:

Being the crew’s leader is just as much a lasting game effect as “being summoned this turn”.  

It’s an effect that applies to the model that got replaced, and wasn’t covered by any of the previous steps, so it swapped over to the new model.

 

The exact wording states "any effect that targeted or chose any original models". You choose your leader. You never choose or target the dust storm to gain a summon upgrade. Being summoned is just a game state. It was summoned this turn. I don't see why that's a lasting game effect.

[santaclaws01]

6 hours ago, LaevusLevusXIII said:

"4. If the new and original models belong to the same Crew, one new model becomes the target of any effects that targeted or chose any original models, such as Schemes, Leader designation, or lasting game effects. That new model is always considered a legal target for those effects."

The exact wording states "any effect that targeted or chose any original models". You choose your leader. You never choose or target the dust storm to gain a summon upgrade. Being summoned is just a game state. It was summoned this turn. I don't see why that's a lasting game effect.

The lasting game effect is that it can't interact and is ignored for friendly schemes and strats, not that it was summoned.