Copying and "Once per Turn" actions

[Nidzilla]

Our group had a recent discussion in regards to models copying abilities. Few questions we have gone somewhat back and forth on but aren't sure digging around the rules and faq. 

 

Using the ability "Just like you" to copy a non bonus tactical action. Limitation stating cannot attach an upgrade or list a model by name.

- Can you copy a tactical action that includes one of those actions as a trigger? But forgoe the triggering effect that it was limited against? 

 

- Can you copy a "once per turn" ability and effectively utilize the action twice in a turn. One from the original model and a second from the copying model? Per the "once per effect" ruling an example is given for the once per activation but not once per turn. Can it be assumed a once per turn effect is only applicable to the model using it? 

- Slightly relates but is the "list by model by name" limited to specifically to the text reading the exact models name? Or does this include other actions that just say "name a model". Groups been having a bit of back and forth on this one. 

 

Thank you all in advance and looking forward to your thoughts. 

[trikk]

Once Per Turn, Once per activation are restrictions that apply per model. So you can copy a once per turn action and do it with a different model.

 

If you have to name a model, the action is considered and action that lists a model by name.

 

Just like you can't copy an action that names a model, even if it's just the trigger.

[solkan]

2 hours ago, Nidzilla said:

Our group had a recent discussion in regards to models copying abilities. Few questions we have gone somewhat back and forth on but aren't sure digging around the rules and faq. 

 

Using the ability "Just like you" to copy a non bonus tactical action. Limitation stating cannot attach an upgrade or list a model by name.

- Can you copy a tactical action that includes one of those actions as a trigger? But forgoe the triggering effect that it was limited against? 

The triggers for an action are part of that action.  So all of the triggers for the action have to satisfy the same requirements that the main body of the action does.

As a pure hypothetical, if the restriction had been "take ... action without naming a model", then you'd be able to do so, but that would probably cause all sorts of weird interactions.

2 hours ago, Nidzilla said:

 

- Can you copy a "once per turn" ability and effectively utilize the action twice in a turn. One from the original model and a second from the copying model? Per the "once per effect" ruling an example is given for the once per activation but not once per turn.

 "These limitations are all by Action (or Ability) and model" refers to both of the previous paragraphs.

2 hours ago, Nidzilla said:

Can it be assumed a once per turn effect is only applicable to the model using it? 

No.  "Once per turn" and "once per activation" work exactly the same way as far as "These limitations are all by Action (or Ability) and model".  Which means that if you have X models in a situation to take an action once per turn, each one of those X models can take that action each turn.

2 hours ago, Nidzilla said:

- Slightly relates but is the "list by model by name" limited to specifically to the text reading the exact models name? Or does this include other actions that just say "name a model". Groups been having a bit of back and forth on this one. 

"listing a model by name" includes both things like "name a X model" and effects that have an exact model name (like "Summon a Gaki" or whatever).

In the immediately previous edition, this was explained in a FAQ entry which reads as follows:

Quote

If a model has an Action or Ability which can copy an Action on another model but has a stipulation that the copied Action may not list any models by name (such as Just Like You! on the Malifaux Child), does that include Conditions contained within the copied Action which list a model by name (such as Protection of Metal on the Metal Gamin)? Also, can Actions be copied which force the player to name a specific model but do not list one? (For example, Nicodem’s Re-animator Action says to “name a Resurrectionist Minion Undead model,” but does not actually list one by name.)

Actions such as Just Like You! which copy other Actions which do not list a model by name may not take either sort of Action. Conditions which are part of an Action’s text are considered to be a part of the Action for this purpose, so it does not matter where the model is listed by name. In the case of Actions such as Re-animator, naming a model is a part of the Action, so it again breaks the “may not list a model by name” restriction.

(The protection of Metal action in the previous edition was:

Quote

Protection of Metal:  Target friendly non-Metal Gamin model within 3" gains the following Condition until this model takes this Action again: "Metal Protection:  This model has Df6.  ...  Remove this Condition immediately if there are no friendly Metal Gamin within 3"."

But the important part of that answer is the part where it says:

Quote

In the case of Actions such as Re-animator, naming a model is a part of the Action, so it again breaks the “may not list a model by name” restriction.

with Re-animator given as an action that includes the text "name a Resurrectionist Minion Undead model".

Your group is welcome to be annoyed by the fact that that explanation isn't included in the current FAQ, but the meaning of "list a model by name" hasn't changed, especially given the amount of action text that directly copied to the new edition.