Multiple use of focus

[Tors]

Quote

Focused +X:  Before performing an opposed duel, this model may lower the value of this Condition by one to receive a  +  to the duel (and any resulting damage flip this model makes).

At first i thought you can only use focused once per opposed duel, as it's clearly "reduce by one, gain +" and maybe i am thinking/interpreting to much, but:

During modify duel step (detailed timing chart C.2.d.i.) i can decide to use one instance of focused to gain one (as discribed)

As the timing hasn't changed is there anything that prevents me from taking advantage of focused again? There isn't a rule prohibiting this as far as i can see; Focused is the only condition with a "may" clause involved, so no similiar conditions are effeced; And it's possible to use multiple instances of 

[Maniacal_cackle]

I don't think you can use it multiple times. It specifically says by one, not "by any number".

Additionally, there are a number things in the rules that you if you applied the logic that you could apply something multiple times at a given step, it'd break the game (such as start of activation, a fire golem spamming +2 burning around itself to give everything a million burning).

Any given effect is likely intended to only be applied once at a given time, barring something that says otherwise.

[Ogid]

The own focus text limit it.

"may lower the value by one to receive a  +  to the duel", not "may lower the value by any amount to gain as many + as the amount reduced" or anything like that

[Tors]

4 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

I don't think you can use it multiple times. It specifically says by one, not "by any number".

Additionally, there are a number things in the rules that you if you applied the logic that you could apply something multiple times at a given step, it'd break the game (such as start of activation, a fire golem spamming +2 burning around itself to give everything a million burning).

Any given effect is likely intended to only be applied once at a given time, barring something that says otherwise.

Ahh, thank you! I was looking for such breaking interactions to prevent this line of though. For some reasons i havn't thought outside of conditions.

 

@Ogid i was aware of the one-at-a-time limit of a single use of the focused condition. My line of thought was of repeated uses of the whole rule. "Could have been worded simpler" isn't a strong argument against a rule without prevalence.

[Maniacal_cackle]

@Tors you're quite welcome! The malifaux rules are pretty fascinating, so many rabbit holes to go down!

[Tors]

And next, similiar hole:

Quote

Sniper: When this model takes a  projectile Action it may lower  the  value  of its  Focused Condition by 1 to treat the Action as having +10" range.

I couldn't find an exact when-taking-an action-happens-here moment. But as it has to be before targeting i can assume timing is different from focused and use both, extended range AND regular focus afterwards in the same action (given at least focused+2 beforehand)? (multiple uses of range extention don't work for the same reason as muliple uses of focused - of course^^) 

[Ogid]

31 minutes ago, Tors said:

@Ogid i was aware of the one-at-a-time limit of a single use of the focused condition. My line of thought was of repeated uses of the whole rule. "Could have been worded simpler" isn't a strong argument against a rule without prevalence.

You missed my point. I was trying to explain that there is no rule that allow you to do that... Focus clearly say you can only lower de value by 1 to gain one +; doing anything different than that isn't allowed (and if being able to lower the value by more than 1 were the intended functionality, then the wording of focus would be different).

[Maniacal_cackle]

24 minutes ago, Tors said:

And next, similiar hole:

I couldn't find an exact when-taking-an action-happens-here moment. But as it has to be before targeting i can assume timing is different from focused and use both, extended range AND regular focus afterwards in the same action (given at least focused+2 beforehand)? (multiple uses of range extention don't work for the same reason as muliple uses of focused - of course^^) 

I would interpret this as being able to do both.

Haven't got the rulebook handy, but you'd have to lose a focus before declaring the target, which indicates a separate timing.

Additionally it is two discrete abilities (losing one focus from sniper, and one focus from the condition itself).

I may have missed a ruling, but that is my first draft interpretation.

[Ogid]

@Tors, as you seem to disagree with my reading.

Could you cite the rule/s which you think that allow you to apply focused any number of times to an action? This looks like rules lawyering.

[Tors]

@Ogid as my initial question has been sufficiently answered i see no point in further discussing this with you, as we don't seem to understand or agree with each others points. I have no interest to put effort in defending a line of reasoning i belive to be proven false, through i continue to disagree with your reasoning of said falsehood.

[Ogid]

13 minutes ago, Tors said:

@Ogid as my initial question has been sufficiently answered i see no point in further discussing this with you, as we don't seem to understand or agree with each others points. I have no interest to put effort in defending a line of reasoning i belive to be proven false, through i continue to disagree with your reasoning of said falsehood.

Read again my posts. You still don't get it.

The main problem is this one: 

1 hour ago, Tors said:

There isn't a rule prohibiting this as far as i can see

Rules in games instruct players about what they can or can't do. If there isn't a rule saying you can use the focus state rules more than once per action, then you can't. You need a rule allowing you to do it, not one stopping you from doing it.