Kaos Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 Wait. He can ignore soulstones if you get the trigger. He can create abominations if you get the trigger and kill something (and here reside the main problem. You don't reliably kill something). You don't get cards killing something. You get cards if you sacrifice your own models. That you can definitely do if you play ashes and dust but otherwise you are going to sacrifice a model for that. You can get soulstones if you have the effigy, but any master can do, so isn't really leveticus perk and to be honest works better with viks. Again, he is not crap. I think the new upgrades are brilliant because they bring his melee play back and make him ask questions. They bring a more reliable abominations summoning engine since you don't need the suit. They bring in scheme control, and combined with leveticus artificial mobility that is good (but not so good, if the opponent remove schemes to score, you will not make it in time, since you need to die to move where you want and will happen only on the next turn, but would hurt crews like Colette). It's one step below being good. He just need a push in the right direction. Consider what other (already powerful) masters got and you will see he is being a bit mistreated due to an atavic fear he can potentially break the game again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 5 minutes ago, Kaos said: Wait. He can ignore soulstones if you get the trigger. He can create abominations if you get the trigger and kill something (and here reside the main problem. You don't reliably kill something). You don't get cards killing something. You get cards if you sacrifice your own models. That you can definitely do if you play ashes and dust but otherwise you are going to sacrifice a model for that. You can get soulstones if you have the effigy, but any master can do, so isn't really leveticus perk and to be honest works better with viks. Again, he is not crap. I think the new upgrades are brilliant because they bring his melee play back and make him ask questions. They bring a more reliable abominations summoning engine since you don't need the suit. They bring in scheme control, and combined with leveticus artificial mobility that is good (but not so good, if the opponent remove schemes to score, you will not make it in time, since you need to die to move where you want and will happen only on the next turn, but would hurt crews like Colette). It's one step below being good. He just need a push in the right direction. Consider what other (already powerful) masters got and you will see he is being a bit mistreated due to an atavic fear he can potentially break the game again. He has similar or better range damage than Perdita. He quite reliably get out 8 damage. Summoned Aboms are really game changers You can get cards from Tally Sheet. As for Effigy: I'd say he's the best Effigy user in OC I think we'd have to agree to disagree because the only top master that got very good stuff IMHO is Plague Pits. The rest of the top got pretty mediocre (Collodi, Nellie, Sandeep, Somer) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaos Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 I struggle to reliably put 8. I would say 6 and sometimes not even that due to missing. If you have a trick there, explain it to me. Tally sheet is a upgrade and as such available to everyone so not really Leveticus perk. I also think viks got a quite rad upgrade. One channel and half, as I proposed, isn't going to break him probably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 15 minutes ago, Kaos said: I struggle to reliably put 8. I would say 6 and sometimes not even that due to missing. If you have a trick there, explain it to me. Tally sheet is a upgrade and as such available to everyone so not really Leveticus perk. I also think viks got a quite rad upgrade. There is no trick. You might be mispositioning or misplaying your resources. You are Ca7. Thats as reliable hitting potential as it gets. You should be reliably shooting at models with Wp5 and summoning aboms off of them. Levi is not Viktorias. He shouldn`t kill tanky Henchmen and Masters in one activation. He should knock out smaller models and change them into aboms. It doesn`t really matter if Tally Sheet is a general upgrade or not. You can take it on Levi (you can even Terracota it with Levi). If you really need more damage, I think Obsidian Statue has an aura that bumps damage suffered from Ca attacks by 1. 15 minutes ago, Kaos said: One channel and half, as I proposed, isn't going to break him probably. I honestly don`t think its worth the errata cost. He is not garbage. He is not the strict top (mostly because Hamelin). So he is in a decent place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaos Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 It's a ca 7 with a shooting symbol, meaning a cover can put a serious span in your plans. You will mostly get a - flip on damage most of the time without focusing (if you hit) and a straight flip with focus. Cheating a serious if you got the card and you did not use it to cheat the hit flip give you 4 DMG. The second unfocused shoot will probably give you 2 (still if you hit). Meaning you will get 6 average. Unless you don't take a walk action and focus 2 times. And we're talking about models in the open. In cover you will probably hit 4 DMG if not less due to missing. The new argument is "but you should hit wounded models". This is ok until something tarpit your models so you can't shoot because you're going to randomize on your models, that isn't so bad since they're gonna hit in HTH with the engaged model, but depending on the model you could not be able to summon the abomination or to even hit at all. Or pull off the attack, if such model has 2 or less wounds left. I really don't see this damage potential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 5 minutes ago, Kaos said: It's a ca 7 with a shooting symbol, meaning a cover can put a serious span in your plans. You will mostly get a - flip on damage most of the time without focusing (if you hit) and a straight flip with focus. Cheating a serious if you got the card and you did not use it to cheat the hit flip give you 4 DMG. The second unfocused shoot will probably give you 2 (still if you hit). Meaning you will get 6 average. Unless you don't take a walk action and focus 2 times. And we're talking about models in the open. In cover you will probably hit 4 DMG if not less due to missing. The new argument is "but you should hit wounded models". This is ok until something tarpit your models so you can't shoot because you're going to randomize on your models, that isn't so bad since they're gonna hit in HTH with the engaged model, but depending on the model you could not be able to summon the abomination or to even hit at all. Or pull off the attack, if such model has 2 or less wounds left. I really don't see this damage potential. Not everything can be in cover and you have access to Belles if the table is too covered. Cover is something all ranged masters have to deal with. You can stone for , you can Channel-Focus-Shoot-Focus. Please look at other ranged masters and their damage potential when you`re in cover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukemouse Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 He reliably put out 8 with the old channel. Unless you are targetting models with wp 4 or something so the opponent doesnt feel its worth cheating you to a negative on damage your reliable damage should be more in the 5-6 range. Perdita, Collodi and Reva can all do the same or better against cover. Unless you do a total hand dump (which is possible with many masters for insane damage) he is a mediocre beater and his abomination summoning isn't an amazing ability, not that its a bad one. Ramos can summon 3 spiders a turn, most ressurs summon high cost things off what they kill through the marker, its not some master defining crazy ability if it was mcmourning would be the greatest master ever. Levi's ability to hire out of faction models decreases in its worth with every book as each faction gets more and more tools to deal with problems without going out of faction. There was a time when him taking belles, necropunks or whatever was a unique ability that gave him a serious advantage but now that each faction has most roles covered including outcasts its not that significant an ability. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaos Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 Perdita is 2/4/5 anyway meaning 2 more damages per activation. And she has critical strike. Also his hiring pool thing means he need to pay a 1ss tax if he is hiring only one model. And I do not care about terracotta because I do not want that tax to raise even more to just get a different upgrade. What he can access with the upgrade is a pushing model usually, like a doxie, since we do not have it in outcasts or maybe some utility constructs. The point is space in his crew is limited. You probably want ashes and dust You probably want rusty Alyce So you have one slot left for a expensive mode. You can take Lazarus, or you can take a 6 ss model and one utility 4 ss model (maybe a effigy). So I'm not sure the upgrade is really worth it. I can play maybe without Alyce, but then who recycle abominations when they die? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 4 minutes ago, Kaos said: You probably want rusty Alyce I doubt I'd ever hire her Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukemouse Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 Between her anti charge aura, reactivating constructs and her great shooting prowess shes a good pick in most outcast crews. Her synergy with levi (as shes really the only model other than A&D with any synergy with him) makes her almost a must take in any killy pool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 Im not saying she's awful but I doubt I'd take her in a competetive Levi list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaos Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 Just now, trikk said: Im not saying she's awful but I doubt I'd take her in a competetive Levi list. We are a bit off topic, but just out of curiosity, what do you play in a competitive list? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 Levi - Pariah of Iron - Ultimate Demise - Optional Desolate Soul Ashes - Optional Bigger They Are Necropunk Joss -Oathkeeper Effigy 2 Waifs Necropunk Trapper Johan This is an example list It shifts with S&S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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