Does Nellie overshadow McCabe?

[trikk]

5 hours ago, Adran said:

But Re-activated Nimble Thrall>fast Frank/Phiona

Nellie can give out fast to 3 models. She is also a lot better at denying with activation control. I honestly don`t know a pool where I would prefer McCabe.

 

Reactivated Nimble Thrall is very good. Thats why I never said that McCabe is garbage but noone really gave me pool/opponent and showed why McCabe is better

[lame0]

Yeah so I'm gonna agree Nellie seems much more flexible and the fact that she gets a much larger hiring pool is super significant.(larger being that the models are worth paying the cost for) Throw in the fact that Burt, Ronin, johan, McTavish, trappers and aionus are super playable and get better with her around.  with Nellie and I'd say Burt, McTavish, Johan and a Ronin could make my list most of the time. Throw in that she can fast a model like McTavish and just mess with the board state and activations like she does makes her better imo. Feels just like a Somers vs Wong situation. Somers better 90% of the time but Wong can totally get it done in his own way.

[EnternalVoid]

15 hours ago, trikk said:

Nellie doesn`t have any restrictions on hiring minions. She can, like, have 4 dogs too. And buffing 2-3 hitters is a lot better with Nellie than with McCabe because I still think Fast Frank/Phiona > Nimble Thrall.

 

I`m not saying that McCabe is a bad master. I`m saying that when you can take McCabe you can probably take Nellie and have a slightly easier time due to her movement manipulation combined with extra AP generation combined with activation control.

Nor am I saying Nellie is bad, but they don't play the same game for me.  Sure Nellie can take 4 dogs, but is she going to take four other models plus Luna to give you a 10 model count?  Not likely.  My McCabe lists generally have 9-10 models and can use a Shotgun approach to spreading out.  For me Nellie wants several more expensive or Middeling models and she wants to stick where she can be there for them *that said it is a bigger area then someone like Hoffman feels restricted to*.  Sure Nellie has some swell tricks with manipulating movement and support, but they generally are better suited to something that can make the most out of it, where McCabe is about working with the grunts and making them fight like heroes.  Nellie dials good models from 8 or 9 to 10 or 11, McCabe can makes 4-6 act like they are 9s.

Having played both of them *McCabe a ton before Nellie came out and Nellie got many of my Guild games once she was built* I can honestly say I favor them both and it all depends on what my Strategy, Schemes, and opponent's crew type is about.  It all depends on what I want or feel I need going into the game.

And I do have one thing that my Nellie is scary to death of, Anyone that has Lecture Notes.  Having her triggers shut down by those Students of Transmortis is rough.  The first time one of my Resser players realized this was annoying as he won init 3 turns in a row and shut down her triggers.  He was complaining about Nellie and about to call the game and made a comment about all the stuff I did with 1Ap from Propaganda and I pointed out those were the Triggers.  I then mentioned she loves all her triggers and that while I could get fast I could not get the heals with out the trigger.  Then we both looked at the Valvictorian and he suddenly asked to flip for Init.  After that condition removal became important but as I often play against Nicodem they can just summon another Student to get access to its Lecture Notes.

[trikk]

1 hour ago, EnternalVoid said:

Nor am I saying Nellie is bad, but they don't play the same game for me.  Sure Nellie can take 4 dogs, but is she going to take four other models plus Luna to give you a 10 model count?

I had 9-10 models in 4/5 at ITC with Nellie and it turned out quite nice

I agree that McCabe buffs low cost models but I honestly find our Henchmen/Mercenaries a lot better than our minions. If they weren't Nellie players would fiels Thralls all day.

If you have initiative issues she has Incite for that. 

[lame0]

50 minutes ago, trikk said:

I had 9-10 models in 4/5 at ITC with Nellie and it turned out quite nice

I agree that McCabe buffs low cost models but I honestly find our Henchmen/Mercenaries a lot better than our minions. If they weren't Nellie players would fiels Thralls all day.

If you have initiative issues she has Incite for that. 

Agreed Thralls are nice but....a debt to the guild is a stupid upgrade on min 3 models >.>. 

[EnternalVoid]

2 hours ago, trikk said:

I had 9-10 models in 4/5 at ITC with Nellie and it turned out quite nice

I agree that McCabe buffs low cost models but I honestly find our Henchmen/Mercenaries a lot better than our minions. If they weren't Nellie players would fiels Thralls all day.

If you have initiative issues she has Incite for that. 

If Nellie works that well for you that you don't feel the need to look at McCabe good for you, that means it likely suits your style better.  For me nothing said here has changed my mind so I guess that is just going to be my way.