Demoing with Rasputina

[Amdor]

So, a little while ago my sister agreed to play a Malifaux demo game with me on the condition, that she gets to choose any Master from the Factions I collect and I'd get their full thematic crew for her to play with. As the title suggests, she went with Rasputina and I now have all the frozen heart models apart from the Ice dancers on my painting schedule. I know my way around the game and have a good idea of how to teach the basics, but I've got a few issues I'd like to hear your opinion about.

My main issue is not knowing what master to play against Rasputina. I have all of the Arcanists except for Marcus (and with Sandeep on the way), Shenlong, Von Schill and Leveticus. So far I've debated between Mei Feng, Ironsides and Kaeris but I'm not sold on any of them (Mei and Kaeris might counter Raspy's tactics a bit too hard and Ironsides might get squished way too easily). What masters/crews would you suggest to provide some challenge but not be overwhelming for a new player.

As for the games themselves, I've got a good idea but would like to hear if you have something more interesting to suggest. I've read the scenarios in the Starter box and devised my own Tutorial consisting of three games. First game would be a couple of minions without any general tactical actions apart from walk, schemes, strats, upgrades or hands. This would teach the basics of activating and taking actions. Second game would be a bit bigger and includes enforcers, upgrades, hands and the rest of general tactical actions, as well as possibly introducing Victory Points. Last game would be a full blown 50 ss Scrap with crew building (with possible assistance), soulstone mechanics and either preset Strat & schemes (So that Raspy's not at a disadvantage) or randomly flipped ones if she wants it. Do you think this works, or should I add a fourth game and take the introductions a little more slowly.

[iamfanboy]

I'd say include the hand mechanic immediately - it's immediately graspable what it does and how it works, and isn't very complicated at all. "You mean if I flip over a bad card I can replace it with a good one?" The main thing to leave out in the first tutorial games are triggers and suits - mention that they're important, but say, "We're ignoring them for now."

If she's never played a wargame before, than a scenario like the very first one in the intro booklet is something I'd recommend to start with - two models immediately in melee, no movement at all. That gets one used to the basics of interpreting the information on the card, spending AP, and is over fast enough (one way or the other) that you can quickly move onto the next two planned scenarios.

Another thing - let her do the math. Some demo'ers get impatient when a game involves any math and does it for the person, and in complicated games (Battletech) that's fair. But in this one, just say, "Flip over the card and add the result to the Df stat. What is your Df stat?" Act as though you're ignorant of the number on her card, let her find it and resolve it herself.

For games 2 & 3, don't forget that the demo booklet has half-normal size - 18" instead of 36". That lets the action kick up quickly, very important for demo games.

For the full-sized game (game 4), I'd pick the master you think will do BADLY against her. You want to encourage her to play the game more, and very little does that quite like a good win where you take losing with a smile - don't intentionally play badly, but picking sub-optimally is a solid notion. I'd avoid summoning and weird mechanics that she'd have trouble figuring how to counter, so Ramos and Levi are out. Von Schill or Ironsides is what I'd recommend.

And maybe have the game at 35-40ss instead of the full 50. Just a little less to keep track of and be overwhelmed by.

[hydranixx]

I would suggest avoiding Von Schill - or if you play him, don't use lots of other Freikorps. With Rasputina being the blaster she is, I bet your sister will desperately wants to use the numerous 's when she sees what they do, and if you are straight up immune to  (Freikorps Suits) it will take away a lot of the fun and experience of Rasputina in the first place.

I think 50ss is a big leap to get to grips with the game, especially if it's her first wargame. I reckon she'd be flaked out and not enjoying it by the end, so would recommend no more than 35ss in the first few games.

[spooky_squirrel]

For demoing the game to casual gamers who have no wargame experience, I've been sticking to roughly 20-25 stones and running the starter box stuff to get them going. At some point I'll be doing that again for my partner and her sister.

It lets them play with no more than a half dozen models, nothing truly complicated, and get a feel for the mechanics of the game, to include winning without killing stuff. As they get more comfortable with the system, I'll introduce more complicated 20-25 stone crews to the mix so that they can see more of the various things that models can do.

 

Even though the full experience kicks in at 50 stones and many of the crew boxes can be stretched to 35 (including cache), if you're demoing to people with zero background/experience, the sheer amount of information on the table in a 35-50 stone game might be overwhelming. If it isn't, great! push the limits and have some fun bringing new people in! Since you're planning on at least 3 games to build up, you might take some time to check in with them after games 2 and 3 to see how they're feeling about the mechanics and to see if they want to try larger/more complicated games with full rules and (coached) hiring practice.

 

As for who to drop into Raspy: start with something that's not necessarily weak into Raspy, but definitely not capable of a passive hard counter. If you ignore Vent Steam you could play Mei Feng (starter box especially) into Raspy with December Acolytes to show the Smell Weakness aura's benefits against crews with defensive tech. If you do this, I would make sure to let your opponent know that you're not going to use that ability until they've gotten to see more of how Raspy works. Once they're ready to be challenged, start using Vent Steam to put Raspy on negatives. This will make the blasting game harder, but help the Raspy player learn to pick targets carefully, work on using the Focus tactical action, play to schemes, and work on activation order more.

As others have said, I would lean away from summoners and models/crews with a passive hard counter (counterspell, immunity to blasts) until your opponent is practiced enough with the mechanics and their crew where they're not overloaded with information. I would estimate this point as being about the same point you'd start using Vent Steam if you go with the Mei Feng route.

[Vorschlag]

I like your idea with the break down of developing missions, I've found this works very well for teaching new players with the starter box.
As others have suggested I would drop the cap on the final game to 35 stones with maybe one upgrade per model to get the hang of upgrades before jumping to a 50 stone game.
So maybe try minion only game - henchmen led 20 stone game (no upgrades) - master led 35 stone game (minimal upgrades) if you've got your hooks into the player by game three you'll know it and you can then jump to 50 stones full crew.

Against Rasputina (with the masters you have available) I would be inclined to make it an interesting thematic game of fire and ice with her facing Kaeris.

[Amdor]

Thank you for your responses and special thanks to iamfanboy for reminding me of multiple things I would've screwed up otherwise (I've read the Starter booklet but don't own a copy, so I didn't remember that the early games are on a 18" map. Also, I'm definitely one of those guys who would do the math quickly and just tell the results without explanation).

I'll include the hand from the start, I was doubting it myself from the moment I wrote it down (There's not much to keep track of in the first game anyway and without cheating the fight would quickly stagnate). The final game will also be 35-40ss, just so I can roll out the masters for a Grand finale. I thought a difference of 10-15ss would mean just 1 or 2 models and upgrades, but that might be just enough to nudge the game to being cluttered and confusing. I can suggest 50ss games later on, if she seems hooked.

I didn't even consider the complexity of playing with upgrades, so I will need to hold back and introduce them slowly (only in the last two games and only 1 or 2 per side).

As for the masters, I'm leaning towards going with Ironsides (Sandeep would be neat, but is a summoner, as well as incredibly difficult to keep track of). Kaeris and Mei are too strong (and intentionally avoiding effective actions like Vent Steam might come across as throwing the game) as well as the Freikorps and their blast-ignoring armour (I'd play as thematically as possible to make the games visually simpler to understand and more interesting). I was afraid that Ironsides might get beaten bit too easily (and thus being boring to face), but that just means I don't need to hold back.

[hydranixx]

Mei, I can agree with, but I don't see how Kaeris would be too strong. There's nothing on her base card, or in her crew box for that matter (thematic introductory games, right?), that is over the top or annoying to play against (upgrades aside). Their damage is less than impressive, and her minions and henchman die easily enough when they get some attention. More importantly, the box has very clear synergies with Burning, so you could introduce her to the importance of making the most of your synergies (and her she might counter them/play around them).

I think it'd be a great thematic fire and ice match up, so I agree with @Vorschlag on this one. 

3 hours ago, Amdor said:

I was afraid that Ironsides might get beaten bit too easily (and thus being boring to face), but that just means I don't need to hold back.

You're probably right, but my feeling is that if/when Ironsides gets into combat with Raspy and half her crew and ties them up, which is not a far-fetched idea since she's brand new to the game, the game will get very dull, very quickly. Anything with Warding Runes (which is almost essential to Ironsides from what I hear) seems especially cruel to a bidding Raspy player as it strips her built-in s.

Edit: That's what Warding Runes does, right? Like, Counterspell, it strips suits, yes? I rarely use it myself...

[spooky_squirrel]

44 minutes ago, hydranixx said:

Mei, I can agree with, but I don't see how Kaeris would be too strong. There's nothing on her base card, or in her crew box for that matter (thematic introductory games, right?), that is over the top or annoying to play against (upgrades aside). Their damage is less than impressive, and her minions and henchman die easily enough when they get some attention. More importantly, the box has very clear synergies with Burning, so you could introduce her to the importance of making the most of your synergies (and her she might counter them/play around them).

I think it'd be a great thematic fire and ice match up, so I agree with @Vorschlag on this one. 

You're probably right, but my feeling is that if/when Ironsides gets into combat with Raspy and half her crew and ties them up, which is not a far-fetched idea since she's brand new to the game, the game will get very dull, very quickly. Anything with Warding Runes (which is almost essential to Ironsides from what I hear) seems especially cruel to a bidding Raspy player as it strips her built-in s.

Edit: That's what Warding Runes does, right? Like, Counterspell, it strips suits, yes? I rarely use it myself...

Yes, Warding Runes gives Counterspell base. What makes it even worse is if Ironsides has the Nemesis Mage and Blood Mage along, because the two models with Warding Runes will get defensive bonuses against Rasputina, Rasputina will lose all built-in suits, and the warded models would be immune to slow/paralyze. Not holding back with Ironsides will result in a lot of tied up models (no Mirror options) being killed or conditioned for strat/scheme points. She gets mean in the hands of an experienced player, but seems harmless with newer players. It would be a lesson in removing support models, however.

That's why I was leaning towards a Mei Feng starter--it's one ability on one model, and it's not throwing the game if you're up front about not using the ability until the Rasputina player is more familiar with her crew and synergies. If your opponent feels like you're playing too soft, use the ability and help her figure out ways to work around it.

Kaeris is also not a bad option for leaning level games, as her stuff isn't overwhelmingly powerful or complicated for the opponent. Her control is hand and marker control, which isn't nearly as harsh to a newer player. The burning bit can add up, but Frozen Heart theme with a couple of Silent Ones can be using their (0) and attacks to heal up things that were singed but not killed--which gives you a way to introduce both healing and condition management.

[Amdor]

@hydranixx, I agree with @Vorschlag as well, I'd love to weave a song of ice and fire.

But, what I'm afraid of is the fact that Rasputina is vulnerable to getting locked down in melee, especially if caught without Guarded Advance or support from Snow Storm and Kaeris can fly (as well as Firestarter and any friendly burning models nearby if Kaeris is carrying Grab and drop). To me, this seems to equal in a Kaeris swooping in from out of nowhere and locking down (and most likely killing) Rasputina with her Ca 7 attacks, that can be used in close combat (Ca, so Sub zero is of no use and neither attack needs suits, so Counterspell isn't helping much either).

And yep, that's Warding Runes. On it's own it just gives Counterspell, all the neat stuff comes from the Oxfordians (hmm, that'll be a lot of upgrades...).

Actually, now that I think about it, I'm starting to see similar issues with Ironsides. She can't fly, but with assistance from her thematic crew she can jump quite a distance and if Rasputina ever makes the mistake of coming within 6", she's definitely going to get hit by Rush 'Em. And then we're at the same point of getting locked downed with an Acting value of 7 attack with the added disadvantage of boosting the enemy, when any models arrive to her aid. This time Sub Zero can limit the onslaught to one attack, but it'll probably be a focused Uppercut, so it's not too helpful. In addition any Oxfordian upgrade can be quite nasty against Raspy (though Blood and Nemesis seem more beneficial than Doom).

Edit: In conclusion, it's either going to be Ironsides or Kaeris, but I have to think about it a bit more deeply. Both have nasty tricks that I have to inform my sister about. It mostly comes down to whether I want to deter her from grouping up or spreading out.

Edited January 12, 2017 by Amdor
Adding final thoughts

[Vorschlag]

set up schemes - fudge the deck - so that the schemes and strats don't promote an in your face battle that way it doesn't look like you're throwing the game by not charging in to lock Rasputina down.

[spooky_squirrel]

As @Vorschlag suggests: set up the fight in advance. It's something that Henchmen I've seen do for demo games. They play a Turf War equivalent strategy (Guard the Stash, Extraction) and select 1-2 schemes (depending on the size of the scrap) that encourage interacting on the board and with the opposing models.

This will allow for adjusting your teaching on the fly, as the scenario is consistent and planned and both players are going for the same goal.

[Vorschlag]

It also helps prevent giving a new player an npe, i.e they may have their heart set on a master or crew that isn't overly flexible and the wrong scheme pool can put them at a horrible disadvantage. 

 

[Amdor]

Actually that's exactly what I suggested in the first post (though didn't dwell on too much)

On 10.1.2017 at 3:52 PM, Amdor said:

either preset Strat & schemes (So that Raspy's not at a disadvantage) or randomly flipped ones if she wants it

I'll definitely go with hand-picked Strategy and schemes, but I'm having second thoughts on which ones I should go with. I first thought of going with ones that involve fighting as little as possible, just to emphasize the objective-based nature of the game, but that's not very beneficial to Raspy, who's crews are quite killy and fairly slow. So... Turf war sounds quite fitting, not too much movement and removing enemies denies them points. To compensate, the schemes should probably be focused on interaction (if it's not Breakthrough or something similar, the slower average speed isn't going to be an issue). What would you suggest?

[Vorschlag]

For simplicity sake I'd use the schemes out of the book.

A line in the sand - make sure there's scatterings of terrain across the centre so the player learns the importance of blocking terrain and cover when they try to pick off scheme runners or try to achieve this themselves - though I'd advise against it.

numbers
Make them suffer will encourage the correct placement of ice mirrors for rasputina to score from
deliver the message will give you a reason to get someone near her and will give rasputina a reason to ensure no one does - explain the negative side of engagement for ranged pieces before hand aswell so the point sinks in.
Frame for murder will teach the player that "kill everything" is not always the way to go with Malifaux

suits
Protect territory is auto include (in my opinion) for new players as it is simple and gets them used to the idea of scheme markers
Then either bodyguard or breakthrough

[dancater]

My thinking.

Play 35ss.

Stick with Raspy's basic box mostly, add a Silent One at least.

Get Ice Dancers for her (Raspy needs the speed and they are simply excellent models), in the future you will 100% want to use them.

Include hand mechanics and play book schemes, I'd do standard deploy with Turf War (really simple and easy to grasp and works for Raspy and her basic box+ some adds), Line in the Sand (learn scheme markers) and Assassinate (simple and who does not like a little smash the leader). 

Moderate terrain, include some rough terrain and elevation.

If you had Marcus he'd have been my ++ choice, instead I'd run Ironsides and play careful,, she is durable enough and not an easy take down and with the Captain and Ox Mages it'll be a interesting fight with no obvious hard counters or domination match ups.  Ironsides is a fairly simple master with a fairly simple play style so perfect opponent for a newer person, as long as you don't max play her straight in and smash Raspy she'll play nice, durable enough, challenging enough, simple enough.  Most of the other masters you have are more aggressive and/or complex opponents.

[Amdor]

@dancater, thanks. I've already decided on most of your suggested ideas; the hands are coming in game 1 and the final game's going to be 35ss (maybe 40) Turf war, most likely with standard deployment.

The Ice dancers were left out mostly because at the time of ordering there wasn't too much discussion about them, so I was unsure of their effectiveness (also the order was expensive enough as is). I'll see if I can get them during the Easter sale, Raspy could definitely use more scheme runners. But do you think it's really necessary for these demo games if you're suggesting playing mostly with the base box? Although I can see why Snow Storm and Blessed should be excluded, those two can bring unnecessary complexity, why should the Acolytes be left out, they bring a good straight-forward shooting attack and are overall great models?

[JoeJones]

I wouldn't use the Acolytes for demoing because they are almost too powerful. Solid damage plus slow plus discard can be overwhelming to an experienced player. Taking such devastating models against someone in their first game could drive them away from the game.

[spooky_squirrel]

@JoeJones I believe the new player will be playing Rasputina, so she would not be facing them. Otherwise, I do agree that for demoing a brand new player might not respond well to being targeted by the Acolytes until they've had a few games under their belt.

[dancater]

I would leave out the Dec Acolytes in favor of an Ice Dancer based on the 35ss limit I suggested.

Snow Storm and the Blessed of Dec are massive hitters, they add to (or more likely replace) the Ice Golem role and both from complexity and cost are not what I'd recommend.  Again I like the idea of a simple here's the base box and add one or two more models.  It is not optimal but it is neat, controlled and should be fun and a good introduction.

Dec Acolytes are superb models but also rather obvious in utility - they sniper stuff and kill or slow it, harassment and delay, you either let them pick at you or burn resources to kill them.  While they are functional scheme runners they have no special utility in the area and are much better at another role.  If you don't have an Ice Dancer I'd take an Acolyte.

Silent Ones are also excellent but in many ways are Raspy force multipliers and don't add a tremendous amount of 'new'.

So I'd take the Ice Dancer because she (1) retain Frozen Heart thematic- fun/character (2) provides a completely different aspect to a Raspy crew box - speed and finesse over the Gamin/Golems blunt ice trauma and Raspy with her death blizzards (3) are powerful and useful models which look great (4) allow a demo game to really highlight 'the come at you sideways' and scheme > kill aspects of Faux which make it such an exceptional mini war game IMO.  You could use a 'fill in model' but I would not, you're demoing a mini war game where a significant part of the lure is the wonderful and characterful mini's why waste that.....

So that is the reasoning.  You could go all sorts of tricks, change the basic crew box contents, add mercs and non-theme arcanists etc but I would personally go Raspy box + a little extra (as noted above) vs Ironsides box + a little extra (I'd go a Union Miner as a scheme show off and MS&U theme model).  It seems the cleanest and simplest match up for mine.  

[Amdor]

@dancater Thanks. I'll see if I can get the Ice dancers for the demo.