Adding a box to a ragtag collection of random models

[Math Mathonwy]

Imagine a model collection consisting of Lynch, Huggy, Fuhatsu, Kang, one Illuminated and 3 TT Brothers as well as Johan and Lazarus.

How would you build a 50SS list from this if you were allowed to add one non-starter box? A specific list isn't needed, just the box and the reasoning for it is enough (though you can include a list as well).

[Eclipse]

Lynch
Huggy
Fuhatsu
+the new 0ss upgrade from Ripples of Fate
The Illuminated
TT Bro

This is a solid core that should be able to do a lot on it's own. Now, you can add Kang if you are facing undead/constructs, Johan if conditions/constructs. I would switch Fuhatsu with Lazarus on some occasions, but would not take both at the same (redundancy).
What remains is to decide what you need to compliment this rather elite crew. I'd suggest you choose one of those:
*Katanaka Snipers - if you can get your hands on one you have a stronger ranged game and board control. They are solid in melee as well.
*Shadow Emissary - since you don't want crew boxes, no Sensei Yu for Yu. Take the other awesomesauce support model. As a bonus, it likes discarding aces for focus, has two pushes with Lynch (Fuhatsu can't be pushed, but can still get the Fast) and benefits from Brilliance. Just brilliant.
*Mr. Graves - honorary mention for the Hunk himself. He it thematic, but beyond that he has the amazing 6" push, solid melee and protection abilities and is totally Ruthless. Good if you prefer Lazarus over Fuhatsu as the former can definitely be pushed.
Take a look at the models, imagine what you would like to do and you have a flexible crew composition that is good for pretty much anything.

[Drowsheep]

I think Samurai are a good bet.

They are decent at both range and Melee and can cover Lynch while he shoots from the back. 

They have a little bit of maneuverability, but are ultimately a combat centric model.

 

Otherwise, beckoners are a great model, they can lure both your models and your enemy models. They can give out brilliance, and are all around decent models.  They will work well with Lynch and help maneuver your crew around too.

[Math Mathonwy]

Thank you! I think that Samurais have the problem of being kinda similar to Fuhatsu. My intuition would be to add something relatively cheap and somewhat numerous to bolster the numbers as the list is looking very elite but Tengus seems superficial due to the TT Brothers and I'm not sure what else TT would have to offer on that front. Fermented River Monks? Obsidian Oni?

But yeah, Katanaka Snipers or Shadow Emissary look very enticing.

[Eclipse]

I run Oiran as cheap-ish models to fill the ranks and run schemes (no TT Bros yet). They are not really good, but can still drop scheme markers, are Disguised and can occasionally Lure models. I tend to put their 0ss (fix? buff?) upgrade on some ranged model like Lynch or Tannen, or if forced to be conservative on Fuhatsu (who want to shoot all the time anyway). They also like someone to hold Smoke and Shadows for them, though - and for you it would be a stretch to take Yamaziko or Misaki's box for a Last Blossom Henchperson.
Tengu, meh (personally).
Wastrels are decent fun, but are McGabe box only, so no go.
Komainu I would take with Shenlong and Yan Lo for sure, but probably not with Lynch.
Fermented River Monks I have yet to try as well, but on paper they sound like quite a lot of work, even more so out of Brewmaster and Shenlong.
Obsidian Oni on the other hand are something I did not think of, but they are extremely solid. Armor+1, Ruthless, (0) heal for discard (an Ace!) on models with (0ss ) upgrades and they can cast in and out of combat freely. Unfortunately their threat range is not all that rad, but regardless they seem absolutely great.
The Shadow Effigy is actually our best 4SS option, imo: For schemes and for being solid overall.
Oh, something that I didn't think of: Jacob Lynch can bring The Depleted in Thunders. They are cheap, tough and blow up with Brilliance. Thematic and useful for throw-away models.

[Math Mathonwy]

 

Obsidian Oni on the other hand are something I did not think of, but they are extremely solid. Armor+1, Ruthless, (0) heal for discard (an Ace!) on models with (0ss ) upgrades and they can cast in and out of combat freely. Unfortunately their threat range is not all that rad, but regardless they seem absolutely great.
The Shadow Effigy is actually our best 4SS option, imo: For schemes and for being solid overall.
Oh, something that I didn't think of: Jacob Lynch can bring The Depleted in Thunders. They are cheap, tough and blow up with Brilliance. Thematic and useful for throw-away models.

Those three sound possible. Now that you mention Depleted - there's also Stitched Togethers, right? How are they with Lynch?

[Eclipse]

 

Those three sound possible. Now that you mention Depleted - there's also Stitched Togethers, right? How are they with Lynch?

No idea, I don't like the aesthetic so I don't run them. On theory they should be solid as they (0) give soft cover, bombard other model with Ca and discard/draw cards. Also, I find them too slow for my standards (NB and TT all have quite a bit of speed, and from what I am seeing so far Gremlins do too).
On the topic of Darkened models you can also hire a Beckoner or two, but they are costly at 7ss so most of the time I would take one or none. If you like having Brilliance for Lynch's Final Debt, for Huggy, for the one Illuminated you have and for the Shadow Emissary - that's your Lure train/Brilliance dispenser girl.

[Drowsheep]

Stitched together are okay, I think I've maybe run them once with him.

my main problem with them is I just always have the worst luck, I usually end up almost killing them, getting them reactivate and then my opponent killing them before they go again, but I've also seen them do great things against me.  With their card draw, they could be berry good with Lynch.

I like tengu, but you often need to have them working in conjunction with another model (or at least two tengu together), so they aren't that great alone.  But I've had fun.  I'd probably not take them with Lunch though.

but maybe take the katanaka snipers, they're a good model that can flip a lot of cards in their turn.

 

 

[InvokeChaos]

I run a very killy Lynch list that, against my normal creed, is a locked list (I just love it):

Jakob Lynch -- 4ss
 +Woke Up With A Hand - 2ss
 +The Rising Sun - 2ss

Hungering Darkness - 0ss
 +Hidden Agenda - 0ss

Lazarus - 11ss
 +Recalled Training - 1ss

Shadow Emissary - 10ss
 +Conflux Of Hunger - 0ss

Stitched Together - 6ss

The Depleted - 4ss

The Depleted - 4ss

The Illuminated - 7ss
 

The goal with this is list is that I push Lazarus with the Emissary's 0 action (from conflux of hunger) and give huggy fast and a push from his 1ap action, then walk forward. Lazarus usually will double walk, and huggy is 2nd to last activation in case the opponent gets aggressive, otherwise I keep him in range of my Emissary but position for next turn. Sometimes I will throw him far up, say if there isn't much casting on the board, just to engage a bunch of dudes and jam.

Stitched together normally walk up with lazarus providing soft cover and also a target for his assimilate.

The depleted are fantastic, but slow,  tarpit units. They have a great 0 action to push 5" towards a brilliant model (such as my illuminated). 

Lazarus terrifies people. The potential to have a fast lazarus pitch an ace to rapid fire with recalled training netting 4 "focused" attacks is downright nightmare inducing, and it happens more often than you'd think. Shadow Emmisary just melts models with its attack and has some great utility. Huggy is an unavoidable threat that can and will annihilate every thing if you don't deal with him in some fashion. With rising sun he WILL come back because Lynch's combo of Play for Blood (Ca8) into Final Debt (Ca7) is quite often a guaranteed 6-8 damage, then boom, out pops Huggy from the dying breaths of whatever Lynch just melted. 

One depleted and the stitched together can absolutely be subbed out as needed, but I tend to play this list only for center control areas or Interference. In interference I'll just park my two depleted on table corners and say come at me. I have so much ranged threat between Lazarus and a pushed and fasted Huggy that I don't really need to much but get  outside the nullzone in center and just nuke things that get close. 

It's a fun list that you have most of already. You can totally swap out the two depleted and stitched for say 3 10T brothers if you didn't want to buy anything further as their functionally the same job: activations and scheme utility. Not quite as hard to shift as the other two, but more useful for interact schemes. You would probably want to drop recalled training off Lazarus in this case simply to keep your cache at 4, which is bare minimum I feel for Lynch in 10T.

[Eclipse]

I can never make Woke Up With a Hand work, it usually just nets me two cards to Mulligan end of turn 1 and then pretty much nada. Often I find myself just shooting with the gun despite the -1 stat - which the triggers more than make up for. Well, probably the Stitched and all the flipped cards (aces!) surely help with stacking your hand.
On the other hand, I love Wanna See A Trick - no action, no resist, point and click. Boom. Does not work reliably, but I've had some amazing ace bombs some games. Recalled Training for better shooting/flips with the gun and finish with the aces... Delicious (Gotta play Lynch next game now... )!

[InvokeChaos]

 

I can never make Woke Up With a Hand work, it usually just nets me two cards to Mulligan end of turn 1 and then pretty much nada. Often I find myself just shooting with the gun despite the -1 stat - which the triggers more than make up for. Well, probably the Stitched and all the flipped cards (aces!) surely help with stacking your hand.
On the other hand, I love Wanna See A Trick - no action, no resist, point and click. Boom. Does not work reliably, but I've had some amazing ace bombs some games. Recalled Training for better shooting/flips with the gun and finish with the aces... Delicious (Gotta play Lynch next game now... )!

I like Wanna See A Trick when I have say samurai or other models I intend to be flipping a lot of cards with, due to focusing or what have you. I find it to be unreliable as some turns its boom 8 damage, and others its boom 0 damage.

I like Woke Up With a Hand because it's an insurance policy or an on command huggy rez.

With WUWaH, If you absolutely need to melt a model, activate Lynch first. You can't do that with WSAT because it needs those aces, and if you have four aces in hand at first activation, that's a far bigger problem then can you pop 8 free damage out. Also WSAT doesn't help you if you have a mediocre control hand. But you have a good chance of still getting Play For Blood and Final Debt off, just because of their high casts. They don't have icons so you don't care about randomization. Also you have to discard those aces which means they aren't fluff for Mulligan, so if you only have the 4 aces in hand, you don't get to use that ability if you want to nuke.

On the other hand, if you are able to accumulate those aces, you can effectively walk up with Lynch and let your discard nuke what it needs. He's slow, so walking the 12" inches could be just what you need to blow up a scheme runner. Or maybe he just need that one ace in hand because you're going to drop a model to HtK range with his pistol, and just need that final point. There's plenty of great uses and timings for it.

All in all, I feel they fill two different purposes and I like taking both if I can spare the points. But for pure flexibility, you can't beat Woke Up With a Hand.

[Tokapondora]

 

I can never make Woke Up With a Hand work, it usually just nets me two cards to Mulligan end of turn 1 and then pretty much nada. Often I find myself just shooting with the gun despite the -1 stat - which the triggers more than make up for. Well, probably the Stitched and all the flipped cards (aces!) surely help with stacking your hand.
On the other hand, I love Wanna See A Trick - no action, no resist, point and click. Boom. Does not work reliably, but I've had some amazing ace bombs some games. Recalled Training for better shooting/flips with the gun and finish with the aces... Delicious (Gotta play Lynch next game now... )!

How do you not get that to work? Even besides the card draw (which will generally net you around 6 cards already since activating Lynch last is key to being able to nuke things from orbit relatively safely, which coincidentally makes activating him early an effective tool you can catch people off-guard with), setting up a strong hand for the next turn is incredibly good and his Final Debt can effortlessly net you 4-10 damage in one hit. No flipping for damage, no suits required, just boom damage. If you know you can take something down with Play for Blood + Final Debt it's the most reliable way to do so, while you're shooting with your pistol you're bound to get a coated bullet off somewhere, after which Final Debt is again the most reliable way to get damage, and if they're under the influence already it's not even a contest. I know some other moves and cards have the potential to become more, but all in all you're much better off going for consistency, which this card grants you. And the problem with Wanna see a Trick goes against just that. It makes you throw away cards that could've easily mulliganned into a higher starting hand the next turn. Sure the damage is nice but increasing the odds of a strong hand will help far more in the overal game, especially since a Brilliance model within 6 inches that isn't dead when Lynch is done activating is rare to come by.

[Eclipse]

I guess this is related to two factors: A. I don't use push effects (usually) and B. I have had rather bad luck with flips?
  The first means that my Lynch needs to spend AP the first turns to WALK to get to the action. When he finally gets there, he doesn't have the optimal position, he might have to activate after another model because stuff happens, etc. In addition, this also limits the times I can use Final Debt in a game: If I lost two turns getting into position I will not be able to use the attack that same turn (unless something else tagged a model with Brilliance, and in Thunders I rarely bring other Darkened other then Jacob and Huggs). Then on consequent turns I will probably use the ability, IF I don't have to spend cards beforehand, and if Lynch is not dead for some reason, etc.
  The second means that I will usually lose initiative when I find it crucial not to AND decide to stone for it, because hey, it's important. So then I usually have to cheat some to protect a model from getting killed, then Lynch might not be in a good enough spot to cause enough trouble for the opponent and I will probably activate another model first. This results in my hand being rather 'meh' when it's time to Lynch - at which point I'd rather shoot with the pistol and go for some triggers (which are actually great, by the way). In addition, relying on bad flips to protect my (first half of the) Master is a rather poor choice - and he is quite damn squishy.
Activating Lynch whenever I want means I would usually use the bonus two cards drawn as well; on the other hand forsaking the need to go last or first with him has been more useful to me as a player then relying on the one-two punch so far  In some games I also tend to flip the aces a lot, which gives me a nice stack in my hand. Either mulligan them, or if out of position get as close as possible, spread some Brilliance around, (0) Pay Up to fish for some masks (unreliable, but fun) and then throw some aces: Point and boom. While this might not be as reliable, it will more often leave my opponent guessing. Even if they see I have been stacking my hand with aces they will subconsciously think about the possible threat of an ace-nuke. I don't have to use the ability at all, it's more of an opportunity open for exploiting (and a free action without the AP and no resist at all). Final Debt on the other hand is so good I would definitely want to use it every time - which can be exploited. 
  As a result I have been leaning more towards bringing Lynch with Recalled Training (protection until EoT and free focus for the gun), Wanna See a Trick (potential free burst) and either Misdirection (more protection) or Wings of Wind (finally mobility!). Less of a one trick pony, less reliable, but more flexible. Also not as reliant nor as doting on Huggy, who is not the whole point of the game - he is nothing but a free, solid model that I adore (although technically the second half of the same Master...) and as such it is only right that I run him independently if needed for whatever I need done. Assassination, schemer hunting or scheme running himself - it's all fine and dandy, it's a good but expendable model, lalala... This is not Neverborn where I can not only afford, but even feel it's almost necessary to run Woke Up and a Limited upgrade so that I can kill something with Lynch every turn, one at the end and one other at the start of the turn (Doppelganger, initiative, yay). Bad things happen in Malifaux, and relying on a single (if powerful) trick leaves me somewhat itchy.

[Tokapondora]

You're hardly relying on a trick though, you're adding another trick to your arsenal. I do often use the gun, Final Debt is just one of those things that can so easily and reliably wipe models off the board compared to its pockety counterpart and its mere existance puts a ton of pressure on the opponent. I usually take Woke up with a Hand, depending on the mood either immortal or angry Huggy (often against Ressers), and Recalled Training. It's just that RT only last a turn, and I consider a turn of Lynch not murdering one or two things a turn wasted. And there's no need to go last or first, but this card means that the options of going last and first are turned into very effective moves. Doesn't mean you have to, 's all up to you, but both those options are made a whole lot strong with this card. Often youll get a Final Debt in your face with 7 damage at the end of the turn, or start of turn you have three people in Brilliance, one of which took 7 damage total from a sneak Final Debt and are all ready to be picked off by Huggy/Illuminati. Or do it at any point during the turn. It's just more tricks you can use however you want, any aren't as restricted in their uses as Wanna see a Trick.

And my flips may not be ideal, but with Lynch I often find myself with a good hand anyways thanks to the double mulligan, and the +2 cards increases the odds of getting good cards. Which is what Lynch play is all about really. You draw more cards over the game so you vastly increase the odds of having those good cards when it matters. And if you don't draw them, that means they're still in your deck which TT's generous attitude to  facilitates brilliantly.

Also just a general tip; use push effects. They are the most effective tool any crew can have. Sensei Yu can give a Lynch or a Huggy a 10" threat range + fast, which can all in all count up to 22"+1/2 attacks. Or scheming actions. Or anything really. 

[Eclipse]

 

Also just a general tip; use push effects. They are the most effective tool any crew can have. Sensei Yu can give a Lynch or a Huggy a 10" threat range + fast, which can all in all count up to 22"+1/2 attacks. Or scheming actions. Or anything really. 

Thanks for the write-up. I might go for Final Debt more often. As for the push effects, I know how powerful they are, I just don't use them in Lynch crew (yet). It's not optimal and I am missing out on a lot, but I have something particular in mind by doing this, so it's all good.
On a side note, how do you get Brilliance to stick around other then the Beckoners' aura? I don't have the patience to set up models with Play for Blood in Thunders; in Neverborn it works because I team up with Sorrows and the Misery auras shred the target with every point and click (and they can give out the Mood Swings to get ready to delete the model). On the Thunders' side of things I'd be more inclined to find a different approach, like trying to use the Scintillating Cloud for the Brilliance marker more often.

[Tokapondora]

 

Thanks for the write-up. I might go for Final Debt more often. As for the push effects, I know how powerful they are, I just don't use them in Lynch crew (yet). It's not optimal and I am missing out on a lot, but I have something particular in mind by doing this, so it's all good.
On a side note, how do you get Brilliance to stick around other then the Beckoners' aura? I don't have the patience to set up models with Play for Blood in Thunders; in Neverborn it works because I team up with Sorrows and the Misery auras shred the target with every point and click (and they can give out the Mood Swings to get ready to delete the model). On the Thunders' side of things I'd be more inclined to find a different approach, like trying to use the Scintillating Cloud for the Brilliance marker more often.

You don't. Well, if you do it with Lynch at the start of the turn you can use Huggy's obey to make it permanent, but most of the time it's just Play for Blood/Gun to give Brilliance (Depending on terrain, engagement, etc) > Final Debt > Play for Blood/Gun on either something new or the model you just targetted if that'd kill it, and if you're fast do it again. Basically tagging models to die, which immediately makes your opponent play them more defensively, and then go hunting. I usually take one, maaaybe two illuminated for Brilliance tricks and that's it, and with them and Huggy you don't need it to stick around. Mind, I rarely play around Brilliance and it's more of a fun little bonus. And when activating last, Final Debt (and to a lesser extend Play for Blood) is also useful for taking out models that are engaged and maybe already Brilliance'd after Huggy's done poking them to free him up so he can immediately charge and entangle something else next turn. Clean-up-crew, essentially.