Neverborn Newbie Needs Advice

[Wolfpact]

So, howdy folks.

I've been popping in ona few of the boards for about a week as I read up, learn, and get the materials and funds in order, preparing to dive into Malifaux. I've pondered various Masters but I've seen one bit of advice repeated: Stick to One Faction at First so as to build up a crew-building pool, and though I truly enjoy the nature and suggested gameplay and lore of a couple other Masters in various factions , three out of five of my shortlist are Neverborn - and it doesn't hurt that they've got some fun models  in the Starter Set, either.

 

So, after some consideration, seems like I'm going to cut my Malifaux teeth on the Neverborn, and so I come to the veterans for advice!

 

Really, any suggestions you have to offer. Any resources and bits of expertise.As I understand they're the 'tricksy'f action and focus on melee heavily - both of which are things I enjoy. I'm primarily looking at Lilith (she seems to play well with the Starter models, and the whole charging about thing appeals) and Lynch (as a longtime Deadlands fan, the Huckster-esque nature of his presentation is alluring, and I've heard he can be a real blaster damage-wise), with Pandora rounding out my top three (More dirty mind tricks and manipulation!).

 

(My nephew, who I'm getting into this alongside, is also interested in Chompy and Dreamer, but I've been warned that the Kid is a terrible Master for beginners)

 

Given a budget of about $80 U.S. (not counting the Starter), what are good choices for supplementing the starter boxes for Lil, Lynch, and Pan? I've heard a lot of good things about Mister Graves?

 

Again, any advice and suggestions you have to offer the new guy, I accept gratefully!

 

 

[thebarbalag]

Doppelganger is pretty much a must for any Master. Primordial Magic is phenomenal (less so with Lynch, but that's the Hungering Darkness's fault). Mr. Graves is very good for board control, tanking, and beating. Nekima is a sound investment, as can be a box of Nephilim, but I'd get Nekima first. Teddy is both an awesome model, and all-around fantastic in play. Beckoners are going to super-charge your Lynch lists, as well as pulling things into Lilith or Tots to murder, or bringing them into Pandora's doom bubble. That will get you a very solid start for all three Masters for a variety of circumstances.

Don't be afraid to break thematic ranks, either. Teddies work very well with Lilith. Nekima makes a great hunting partner for Pandora, and Barbaros is hellish in a Pandora list. Terror Tots under Lynch get to recycle the Ace of Masks for infinite sprinting, etc., etc....

[Eclipse]

Before anything else, buy the Doppelganger. She is the best lass, the real Swiss-knife of the faction. She can do so much I that now I'm addicted to taking her.
Solid models that you can take are: Mr. Graves, Nekima, Teddy. They are all heavy hitters and somewhat costly, but with careful play deserve their point costs and more.
You might find that some models from the three starters compliment each other. Take some time to mix and match the models however you see fit. In a few games you will start to see how things work out best for you. At this point you can start adding new models to your collection, starting with the Doppelganger (or maybe some other model you might find you just HAVE to have, and build, and play...).
Do not be discouraged if some of your games are tough. Neverborn are not always straightforward despite being the melee, in-your-face faction. Learn to be sneaky, use cover and terrain, target the Wp where it's weaker.
Edit: What thebarbalag wrote

[thebarbalag]

Eclipse is quite right. Neverborn are hardly ever what they seem. While Lilith has a big sword, and can really dole out damage, she is also an amazing control Master, dictating where and when the battle takes place. Pandora is slippery and tricksy, but is also an amazing face-beating murder machine.

Neverborn also rely on layered synergies for maximum effect. Attacks targeting Wp which generate new attacks from Smell Fear, which push the target into a model with Pounce for another attack, all the while punishing the model for failing the Wp duel in the first place (for example, Pandora casts her (0) Incite at an enemy next to Teddy, and succeeds, which gets Teddy an attack from Smell Fear, Teddy hits and triggers (built in, yay!) Peek-a-boo! to push the enemy up to 4", which lands them in Ml range of Baby Kade who gets an attack from Pounce, but wait! Teddy first gets to follow the model he pushed, keeping it in engagement range so that Kade gets +2 damage, all of this happening while within 6" of Pandora and two Sorrows, and so, Misery triggers on all three, so assuming Kade's attack hits, the model is taking a minimum of 9 damage, and Pandora hasn't even spent any AP yet...). Abilities like Barbaros's Challenge, which force your opponent to take a Wp 14 duel to attack someone who isn't him when within 8", again, layered with the Misery ability of Pandora and Sorrows, or made nearly impossible by the presence of the Poltergeist with its Distraction ability. Using Waldgeists to create forests through which Lilith can charge after having used Sudden Darkness for +1 damage, or creating terrain to make hazardous for enemies when tossed about by Lilith's Transfixing Gaze. Using the Brillshaper action of an Illuminated, even when they don't need to heal to fish for Aces to fill up Lynch's hand for 52 Pick-up, or a devastating Final Debt.

Playing just about anything in Malifaux in a straightforward manner is a good way to lose. Neverborn doubly so. We're full of potential, but fraught with weaknesses, so you have to be tricky to cover the distance. Apart from a Dreamer crew, and a few tough models, like Waldgeists and the Depleted (and of course, the Illuminated, which you've got in Lynch's box) Neverborn just can't absorb casualties, and can't really take a hit. Even the very expensive Nekima folds under pressure, so the trick is to use her in such a way that you're the one applying the pressure, and not feeling it. It comes down to proper positioning, choice of target, and threat saturation, all of which you'll learn as you play...while at the same time remembering to play to your Strategy and Schemes...Malifaux is complicated, but like playing Neverborn, really rewarding for those who stick it out.

[Wolfpact]

Part of the appeal really. I've made a gaming career out of dirty tricks and (a term I've heard used elsewhere) "wombo-combos" and control schemes. If I'm not getting 'banned' from 'ever playing [blank] again!' by my gaming buddies/relatives I'm generally not doing my job as I see it. So the more I read from you kind folks, the more I think I am indeed at home here

And, I won't lie, I really love the faction's overall aesthetic to boot.

 

How hard is Lynch to pick up and run with? I've heard Lilith is "low skill floor, high skill ceiling"?

[thebarbalag]

Lynch isn't too bad to learn. His basic crew in Neverborn plays something like a school of sharks. Everything hits. Everything kills. Illuminated do pretty decent damage, and are tough as all get out. When attacking a model with Under the Influence, their damage and accuracy go to 11. Lynch can hand out Brilliance, but, Beckoners are a way cheaper method, and come with a Lure, which is one of the most powerful attacks in the game. That frees up Lynch to use his incredible 52 Pick-Up, or Final Debt attacks, or just blast away with his ridiculous gun (seriously, with a Ram its damage output is hilarious), and gives you more leeway of when to activate things like Lynch, who, depending on upgrades, often wants to go last, and the Hungering Darkness, who usually doesn't want to go until lots of things are Under the Influence, but are otherwise your best options for handing out the condition. Illuminated can do it themselves, but that means they're using AP not charging, which is often a waste (unless they're doing something which directly scores, like placing or removing a marker, but bar unusual circumstances, you should have a Tot or two along for that sort of thing), and they're not that accurate.

Upgrade choice can vary his play style quite a bit, and that really comes down to taste, rather than power level. Some people swear by Wanna See a Trick, but I almost always take Woke Up With a Hand instead. Some people love to have essentially unkillable Hungering Darkness, I prefer Casting Expert and Terrifying (All). Your mileage may vary.

[Wolfpact]

So, for starting out with Lynch.. would a good starting purchase be his box set, a Doppleganger, a box of Beckoners, and a box of Depleted?

 

Also, probably not but due to being a huge Johnny Cash fan and loving the lookof the model, how well does Sue play with Lynch and the Neverborn in general?

[thebarbalag]

10 minutes ago, Wolfpact said:

So, for starting out with Lynch.. would a good starting purchase be his box set, a Doppleganger, a box of Beckoners, and a box of Depleted?

 

Also, probably not but due to being a huge Johnny Cash fan and loving the lookof the model, how well does Sue play with Lynch and the Neverborn in general?

That's a fine start for Lynch. You'll get a lot of mileage out of that.

Sue is a pretty model for a lot of circumstances. Not exactly my go-to Merc for Neverborn (that would be Johan or Bishop, on occasion, with Pandora, or Lust, more often, with Pandora), but he certainly does things that other Neverborn models don't do. If you like him, give him a whirl.

[Wolfpact]

28 minutes ago, thebarbalag said:

That's a fine start for Lynch. You'll get a lot of mileage out of that.

Sue is a pretty model for a lot of circumstances. Not exactly my go-to Merc for Neverborn (that would be Johan or Bishop, on occasion, with Pandora, or Lust, more often, with Pandora), but he certainly does things that other Neverborn models don't do. If you like him, give him a whirl.

Using that aforementioned starting purchase, what would be recommended as a good starting set of lists for each of the SS tiers? 35, 50, etc?

[thebarbalag]

I don't know that there's such a thing as SS tiers, per se. I'd learn at 50. The game gets wonky at other levels. If you were going to do Henchman Hardcore, Hungering Darkness, an Illuminated, a Beckoner, and something for 6 stones (can't think of something off the top of my head, Tannen, maybe?) would be great. For Enforcer Brawl, the Doppellganger is downright hilarious.

For standard games, just to learn, and you'll learn to tweak for scenario as you go, Lynch w/Woke Up With A Hand, On Wings of Darkness, and Rising Sun, Hungering Darkness w/Addict, Illuminated, Beckoners, Depleted, Doppellganger, and you're off and running.

[lusciousmccabe]

I'd start at 50. You can actually just cram all the Lynch stuff you mentioned into a 50 SS list that will work pretty fine for learning the basics of the game and crew. After that start swapping out models, adding upgrades and tailoring your list to the objectives.

[Wolfpact]

Well, I'm just posting to say I've officially got a Lynch crew box painted up, plus a couple Beckoners, and with plans, circumstances permitting, to grab a Doppelganger and Mr. Graves in the next week or so.

Out of curiosity, after those two purchases, which other Neverborn Masters would you fine folks recommend branching out into? I'm particularly looking at both Lilith and Pandora, but would love to hear cases for any of the faction's Masters and their boxes.

 

[chryspainthemum]

Illuminated are good with any crew really, but the minion/armor/regeneration really makes them get up to some shenanigans with Lucius. Lilith though is a great choice to expand with, she's incredibly easy to play early on and then has a lot of depth you can pick up. Control the whole map, but can always just go around killing, too. I just started Pandora and already love how hard she drains your opponents hands. But I do think playing Lilith has helped me learn a lot of the basics of the game.