Flying Over An Alley

[Boomstick]

So it was brought to my attention the other day that Flight ignoring terrain doesn't mean it ignores the impassible/climbable wall of a building, so it still has to measure up the wall to fly up. Makes sense, thank you FAQ.

But that brought to mind this question: If a model with Flight begins its move on, say, a Ht 2 building and wanted to walk to the next Ht 2 building which is across an alley, is it considered to drop down, cross the alley, and then fly up the wall to the roof of the second building? Or is the model considered to stay at the height it began the move, fly the width of the alley, and land on the second roof? What if it's doing this, but the second building is Ht 3?

I feel like the second option makes more logical sense, but I can't find anything that says which to do for sure. Please help.

[Dogmantra]

1 minute ago, Myyrä said:

You are definitely wrong by rulebook alone, because models with flight or any ability to ignore terrain would just ignore all costs involved with vertical movement. Technically they might still fall, but that wouldn't really matter.

Nope, the only place that permits moving vertically in the rulebook is the climbable trait, and ignoring the terrain (and therefore that trait) would mean ignoring the climbable trait and not being able to land on top of it at all. And they would definitely still fall because an empty space is not terrain and they can't ignore that.

And I don't think it's irrelevant at all because the FAQ answer is a modification to the rulebook and so you need to know what the base was before you changed it so you know how everything else works.

[Dogmantra]

8 minutes ago, Myyrä said:

Do you mean the part that says that stairs and slopes aren't climbable terrain?

It doesn't say they let you move vertically. It only says that you can move vertically up climbable terrain.

[Dogmantra]

5 minutes ago, Myyrä said:

Oh, it only talks about those completely flat stairs and slopes. My bad, totally misunderstood that one.

That's obviously not what I meant. I meant that rules are permissive not restrictive and if they don't give you permission to do something, you can't do it. Measurement et al is done on a flat surface in Malifaux, with the exception that climbable terrain allows you to move vertically. If something is not climbable terrain then by the rules you can't move vertically.

 

But I'm obviously not going to change your mind so *shrug* I think I've explained my reasoning enough.

[feagaur]

As a local meta, we've always played it that a model with flying can get from one building to another. But the question came up that if a model with flying can make it across, can a model with incorporeal do the same? Its at that point we decided to just stick to the FAQ and go with it having to go up down then up again. Otherwise you'd be open to allsorts of further questions arising.

[Dogmantra]

3 minutes ago, Myyrä said:

This doesn't answer the question about whether models with flying fall at all.

Models with flying are immune to falling damage and may ignore terrain. There's nothing about not falling there, so of course they fall.

[Boomstick]

5 minutes ago, Dogmantra said:

Models with flying are immune to falling damage and may ignore terrain. There's nothing about not falling there, so of course they fall.

Except if the edge of a building is terrain, which would make sense, as buildings are terrain, the flying model would ignore them when moving, and therefore ignore that they would fall all together.

[Dogmantra]

There was a big thread about this a while back. It was FAQed.

From the FAQ

Quote

48) Q: If a model is pushed off of an edge high enough to necessitate a fall, does it fall immediately?
Could it be pushed far enough to reach another surface of equal height (assuming there was
such a surface)?
A: Models which fall, fall immediately. The model would be pushed off of the ledge and then immediately fall and
take any necessary falling damage upon reaching the ground. Then, if there is any distance left required by the push
(and the model is still in play), it will push the remaining distance.

The relevant part is the quote "Models which fall, fall immediately" therefore you fall off the edge (not taking damage due to flight) and must re-climb up.

[Dogmantra]

2 minutes ago, Myyrä said:

Well they can move up without climbing which at least implies they can float in the air during movement. Which would mean they ignore falling under certain circumstances. Unfortunately, it's quite unclear which circumstances are those.

This is one of the cases of the FAQ contradicting the rulebook, which does suggest you must climb as normal even with flight or incorporeal. The FAQ answer given only suggests hovering in the air during a vertical move and to cross such a gap you would need horizontal movement, and so I think it's fairly safe to assume you still fall.

I agree it's less clear than I first suggested, although I still believe I'm right. I'm definitely correct by the rulebook alone.

[CanYaDigIT]

The model has to take into consideration the difference of terrain. If it is on a height 2 building and moves to a height 3 building it travels 1 less inch....if it is on a height 3 building and movers to a height 2 building, it  moves its full wk because at the end it falls.

 

I would argue that a model can fly "over" a building if it has the wk to end on the other side without having to consider the height