Who's better for Sonnia: Purifying Flame vs Child of Malifaux

[Rurouni Benshin]

Hi everyone,

I'm toying with the idea of bringing the Child of Malifaux with Sonnia, and wanted your opinions on the matter.  But first, some clarification on Sonnia's Flame Wall action, in conjunction with the Child of Malifaux.

1.  Can the Child of Malifaux and Sonnia both cast it on the same turn?  My guess is "yes", since it only stipulates "once per activation", and as they are two separate activations, I would be able to cast it once per model's activation on the same turn.

Not that this would ultimately determine for me whether I should bring CoM instead of the PF, but knowing that I can put up 4 Flame Wall markers in a single turn can be pretty sweet.  No damage flip to worry about, and even at a -3 Ca, the CoM only needs a 9+ to successfully cast it on 2 flips. 

After reading the PF's abilities, they seem adequate, as far as totems go anyway, but a lot of it is pretty redundant, when compared to what Sonnia can already do with her upgrades.  In my mind, it's only real use is for it's "Dampening" ability, which Sonnia can have, provided she takes the upgrade for it.  Otherwise, it's attacks are lackluster, and the fact that it gives out Burning to every model within 2" when it dies makes me want to get it away from me ASAP before it gets killed on my side of the field.  At least with the CoM, even if I don't use it for a second casting of "Flame Wall", Sonnia has plenty of other Ca actions he could perform.

Thoughts and opinions are very much welcomed!

[Argentbadger]

I favour the Malifaux Child if I'm using a totem at all with Sonnia.  In some games having the board control afforded by double Flame Walls can be a strong advantage.

The Purifying Flame is quite a nice target beacon for Sonnia and Samael, but I generally find that Sonnia at least can get shots off where she needs them.  OVerall I haven't found it helpful enough to play in events, but that is not to say that it has no place in the right crew.

[Dogsplosion]

Child and double wall can be game breaking for sure.  I don't like the high casting cost, but on the right terrain set up... yeah.

As for the Flame, I think he's worth his weight for whipping with Sonnia's sword as a card/heal engine, dampening, and ultra-mobile flame beacon (more in this post).

Neither one is an auto-include because they are both very board-layout-dependent.  I would say which is better depends on the board and strat: if you can see a lot of chokepoints and your opponent needs to move through them, Child can help.  If there are a lot of hiding spots and you need help to root your opponent out (e.g. Lilith!) Flame can be your savior.  And if you need to put Sonnia in harm's way, that healing by hitting the Flame is really amazing.  

No clear-cut answer IMO.

[Rurouni Benshin]

Ok, thanks for the advice!

[The Zinc Lich]

Honestly, I sort of wrote off the Flame when I first started playing Sonnia. Double Flame Wall is just too powerful to ignore. That being said, I've really grown to like the little bugger. Its the only way in faction to get burning on a model without damaging it; there have been more than a few flaming Orderlies running the board recently, picking targets out for Sonnia to blast. The incorporeal is also really nice in a faction that doesn't have a lot of terrain mitigation; running through walls and engaging stuff you don't want to get close to your crew is brilliant, and Dampening can really spoil a master's day. Getting the Flame in the right position can mean some pretty clutch turn two or even one assassinations, and I've yet to see someone win a game when they lose their master first turn.

[dgraz]

I'm pleased to see people finally coming around to appreciate the Purifying Flame. I've never used the Child.

[Rurouni Benshin]

CoM has it's uses, albeit they're pretty limited.  As a 3 ss totem for any non-Outcast faction, he's worth his weight if you pair him up with the right Master.  Sonnia is just one example of an exceptionally good Master for him.  Other than comes to mind is Nicodem, since I've yet to see an experienced player use the Vulture effectively.  Ever since I started Nicodem, I've only used the Vulture once and the CoM twice now.  Ca 4 for Rigor Mortis only needs a 7+ to make any Undead model Fast, plus one Canine Remains, and I have a good amount of scheme running just from that.

[Rurouni Benshin]

CoM has it's uses, albeit they're pretty limited.  As a 3 ss totem for any non-Outcast faction, he's worth his weight if you pair him up with the right Master.  Sonnia is just one example of an exceptionally good Master for him.  Other than comes to mind is Nicodem, since I've yet to see an experienced player use the Vulture effectively.  Ever since I started Nicodem, I've only used the Vulture once and the CoM twice now.  Ca 4 for Rigor Mortis only needs a 7+ to make any Undead model Fast, plus one Canine Remains, and I have a good amount of scheme running just from that.

[CapnBloodbeard]

I'm thinking that Child's best uses with Sonnia, aside from the flame wall, is generally casting the non-damaging things she can do, like casting Everburning, leaving her to keep hitting people.

[Ludvig]

I'm thinking that Child's best uses with Sonnia, aside from the flame wall, is generally casting the non-damaging things she can do, like casting Everburning, leaving her to keep hitting people.

If you want your own stuff to be everburning then sure. Most of the time enemy models will have an easy time avoiding the pitiful cast of the child, that is why it's so often used with non-resisted abilities.

If I used the everburning upgrade I might try putting it on the flame who doesn't suffer damage from it anyway so it can act as a beacon.

Edited November 25, 2015 by Ludvig

[Dogsplosion]

I never find The Mask (Everburning upgrade) makes the cut because Counterspell Aura, Cherufe's Imprint (flame wall), Reincarnation (summon Stalkers) and Disrupt Magic are so good.  I'd love to have the ability in her arsenal, I just don't see how to NOT take 3 of the above 4.

[Rurouni Benshin]

The good thing about Disrupt Magic is that it doesn't need to go on Sonnia though, so you could take all 4 in theory. 

[Ludvig]

But Sonnia has four unique to her plus counterspell. Of her 4 unique, the mask does the least. I'm not sure if we play her differently but I rarely get enemies above 1 or 2 points of burning. Now do I want to spend an AP to make one enemy take one extra damage or blast 3+ enemies for 2/3/5 or turn on the flame wall making the enemy unable to hit me back. To me, the choice has never been spending the AP for 2 points of damage on a model (that also gets to activate several times before the damage kills it). I either want it dead before it activates or I'm not really bothered with killing it. I want it to die piecemeal over three turns is never my preferred option.

Edited December 4, 2015 by Ludvig

[Dogsplosion]

RB: I realize we can take Disrupt on e.g. a Henchman, but that still leaves 3 others that are better than Mask, and actually I find I don't have a lot of room for upgrades in my Sonnia crews anyway, as Frank usually carries Wade In and Hermanos, etc.

Ludvig: one comment on your consideration of the ability: I think it's not about doing a little more damage with Burning.  I think it's about keeping a beacon with burning condition from one turn to the next, for use in targeting Sonnia's attacks.  The way I would see using it would be activate Sonnia near end of turn, blast in burning, blast again or raise a flame wall, and then put everburning on a target with a lot of wounds left.  Start of next turn, Sonnia gets to blast again without worrying about cover or LoS on her first shot.  I find that pretty tempting because the first blast with her each turn can be tough to get after cover and LoS considerations... you really need that first shot to be cheatable damage-wise so you can go moderate or severe.  I mean people spend 13 points for Papa Box largely to get that [+] damage flip on Sonnia, and removing hard cover has a better effect!  So for that reason I've considered it, but still can't justify it over the others

It also would work really really well with Purifying Flame, as he could get burning going early game, and with Everburning, be a constant threat to run in and provide a beacon, without spending an AP to do it it later turns.

 

Edited December 4, 2015 by Dogsplosion

[Ludvig]

Your everburning beacon would run a high risk of not being there to make use of everburning. Both watchers and the flame tend to go down very fast when the enemy realizes you can bounce shots off them. 

If I need burning on something in hard cover I would probably bounce a shot off a model in the open (friendly or enemy) and trigger for burning on the blast. A lot of the time I don't bother with burning at all for Sonnia and just take the trigger if I flip it naturally.

I could see using Sonnia as some sort off buffing machine for Samael maybe and swapping out the anti-magic/summoning upgrade in some games to blast onto a really sturdy model and then go to town with Samael.