Improving Mr. Graves survivability

[Gabbi]

Ok, reading around, it seems that Mr. Graves is considered a very resilient model.

Last game (vs Viktorias) I had him almost one-shotted.

Now, still reading around, it seems that Viktorias are a very hard hitting crew, and what they get in range dies. So, this could not be the best matchup to base the evaluation of a piece survivability. Also, sure I played him too carelessly, due to lack of experience.

Nonetheless I'd like to ask: there's something that can be done to further improve Mr Graves survivability? Looking at upgrades in both arsenal decks, nothing catch my eyes...

[Nical]

Mimic's Blessing / Useless Duplication.

[Insidiously Mad]

realistically there is nothing you can do to save him from Vik of Blood, but the above is useful otherwise. 

[Patzer]

Viks makes stuff very dead. Graves will probably never survive 2-3 strikes from either of them. 

Mimic's Blessing and Useless Duplication will keep him a while longer. He might get some mileage out of his aura with the right placement too. But, he won't stay around for long. 

[Bodiless]

With armor and Hard to Kill he is already pretty survivable, but everything has limits in this game (well, except Levi). A Viktoria to the face kills pretty much everything. 

[Masquer]

Scribe and Lawyers.

[Gabbi]

Thanks, will try your suggestions.

Also, it seems that Viks are specialized in quickly making people dead, and since you cannot stop them, the best tactics is to choose myself the models to let them kill. Speaking of Dark Debts, what should I feed them first? I suppose that sending forward a couple Depleted would be of no use, as a wise player would ignore them. Reading pullmyfinger, it seems that while I can choose what allow them to kill, this has to be something worthy anyway, am I right? Hard choice.

[Nical]

Viks are specialized Annihilate Everything near them. But Your Idea is right. Kill them before they kill your models. But They have low Wounds, so If you can hit them, they die easily. Simply, Use Illuminated/Beckoner/Depleted to give Brilliance and Finish by other models.  

 

 

[4554551//]

Thanks, will try your suggestions.

Also, it seems that Viks are specialized in quickly making people dead, and since you cannot stop them, the best tactics is to choose myself the models to let them kill. Speaking of Dark Debts, what should I feed them first? I suppose that sending forward a couple Depleted would be of no use, as a wise player would ignore them. Reading pullmyfinger, it seems that while I can choose what allow them to kill, this has to be something worthy anyway, am I right? Hard choice.

What should you feed them first?

Huggy

He's relatively survivable, and since viks are fantastic killers, but made of tissue, you shouldn't have any problem bringing him back, so you're not losing anything.

And of course depleted. Sure they can try to ignore them, that's why it's YOUR job to get your depleted into engagement. With the disengagement strike bonus, they're a total pain in the ass, even to just walk away from. At the very least models can't charge while engaged.

 

As for how to make graves more survivable, on top of useless duplications (which i'd advise you run on the dopple and keep him near graves) and mimics blessing to a lesser degree, take the black blood shaman. Lets you heal graves, heal the depleted (after giving them black blood turn 1) as well as splash some extra damage around, and other buffs.

[PeregrineFalcon]

Throw up his "Keeping the Peace" and have Barbaros nearby with his "Challenge" up is one thing to consider. But that's expensive. If the two of those are moving around together (easily done) you can do a pretty good job denying attacks/charges until they do some work themselves.

[Gabbi]

Thanks for further suggestions. For bringing back Hungering Darkness I have to equip Lynch with The Rising Sun, right? Also being within 6" from a killed model (with Brilliance) means I have to play him a bit more forward than I did in my first couple of games. Will try, still learning how this crew works.

On Useless Duplications, it seems that the first half of it would be of no use to Graves: he has a 2" range so if he's within 2" of an enemy he would already benefit from randomization as he would be engaged. If he's within 2" of a friendly model... well I don't know... maybe I can put something disposable near him for this purpose only? Don't know if it would be worth the points.
Also, "dopple" is the Doppleganger? Not purchased her yet, it's on buylist, but I'm trying to avoid rushing purchasing too much models and then fall in analysis paralysis when I'm building the crew. I have already put aside Stitched, Sorrows and Kade+Teddy (which I already own) to try properly learning Dark Debts first. Same for Black Blood shaman, who also seems to have synergies with Nephilim, but I'll keep it in mind, a healer can always be handy, thanks for pointing him out.
Mimic Blessing seems nice, maybe once we'll move playing @50ss...

@Falcon: Nice trick Don't own Barbaros, and don't plan to expand to Lilith, but it's a neat trick. Will keep an eye open for it if I'll ever see Graves and Barbaros on the other side of the table

[Rurouni Benshin]

Throw up his "Keeping the Peace" and have Barbaros nearby with his "Challenge" up is one thing to consider. But that's expensive. If the two of those are moving around together (easily done) you can do a pretty good job denying attacks/charges until they do some work themselves.

I like this idea better than "Mimic's Blessing/Useless Duplication", personally.  Keeps the two of them together for a solid "1-2 Punch" against models that needs to be taken down, and saves points on upgrades that could probably be better spent on other models.

That said, I'll just echo what everyone else has said about the Viks.  Being able to ignore all those regular defenses is what makes them so "killy" in the first place.  When I face them, I do my best not to bunch up my models together, although that can't always be helped.  Another nice model that I've found to have immense use is Sloth (from the Crossroads Seven).  As a 9 ss Merc, his "Just Lay Down" Df trigger is very handy for stopping people dead in their tracks. 

And while the Viks dish out a lot of damage, they're essentially glass canons themselves. Df 5 and 6 aren't hard to hit, and they only have 7 Wds each, with a starting Cache of 1.  They'll be soaking up damage quickly and spending stones to prevent them too.  With the Viks, it's usually wiser to play a waiting game to see where they commit, and if you end up having to lose 1 or 2 models to their sling shot, it should optimally leave you with a few behind that are still able to attack them.

[Gabbi]

Thanks again for further suggestion. Crossroad Seven is already on buylist, too. Love the themes (both the rockband one, as the deadly sins one). Also love how they're one model per faction, but all mercs, and how they can be used as a single Crew @50ss. Too bad it will not be in sore before a month or so (or maybe fortunately, as I may concentrate on what I have )

Also, playing the Viks is not considering just Ashes & Blood. Taelor can make Huggy cry, and the Ronins ignore Grave's armor. Anyway, as said, still learning the Crew, and M2E as a whole. More than a few games I've lost because I concentrated more in killing than in planting Schemes...
In this regard, I suppose the thing I need the most, is putting as much games as I can under my belt

[PeregrineFalcon]

That said, I'll just echo what everyone else has said about the Viks.  Being able to ignore all those regular defenses is what makes them so "killy" in the first place.  When I face them, I do my best not to bunch up my models together, although that can't always be helped.  Another nice model that I've found to have immense use is Sloth (from the Crossroads Seven).  As a 9 ss Merc, his "Just Lay Down" Df trigger is very handy for stopping people dead in their tracks. 

Sloth is good, but he does need the crow (not built in if I recall) and if anyone can do out of activation attacks on him via Obey or similar (thinking Collodi's My Will here) he drops quickly. Against Viks while better I do think he is going to just get eaten up (as is really any case with the Viks). As was mentioned, just assume whatever the Viks get a jump on they're going to kill. The challenge is offering up the model you WANT them to kill and hoping it has some ability or way to do dmg while viks are doing dmg (i.e. Black Blood).

[4554551//]

Thanks for further suggestions. For bringing back Hungering Darkness I have to equip Lynch with The Rising Sun, right? Also being within 6" from a killed model (with Brilliance) means I have to play him a bit more forward than I did in my first couple of games. Will try, still learning how this crew works.

Just glue the cards together to prevent yourself making the mistake of not taking rising sun again lol

Seriously, it's presented as optional, but you always want it. Always. Lynches gun is really strong, and so is the upgrade that does 1 damage per card in hand, cast on a 7. So you walk, cast on 8 for 2 damage and brilliance, cast on 7 for like 4-5 damage. Kills most things, gets huggy back engaged with other things or what not. Jacob wants to be a little back, but still in shooting range. He's too much of a powerful hitter to not make use of.

 

On Useless Duplications, it seems that the first half of it would be of no use to Graves: he has a 2" range so if he's within 2" of an enemy he would already benefit from randomization as he would be engaged. If he's within 2" of a friendly model... well I don't know... maybe I can put something disposable near him for this purpose only? Don't know if it would be worth the points.

Remember you can also discard cards to give them negative flips to melee attacks. Means they need to focus to be able to cheat at all, and you've usually got a surplus of aces. Also, disingagement strikes are melee attacks don't forget. More relevant for dopple getting out of combat, but can be good for others too.

Dopple = doppelganger yes. She really should be the very top of your list. She's our mechanical rider, our ashes and dust, our single best model that fits into everything forever.

Mimics blessing is nice, but I've always had it secondary to useless duplications. That upgrade is riddiculously good. You pawn off damage to nearby tankier models, and give negs to melee flips. Also, remember dopple doesn't get flipped for when randomising into engagement, which works super well with duplications.

I'm still putting my crossroads together [read: getting the assembly comissioned] but having a bit of a play having proxied up the models envy really seems to shine. This is more of a side note, not really relevant to what this thread is about.

 

[Gabbi]

Thanks once more, mate. Will glue the cards