Rurouni Benshin Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 Hi again everyone! I bring to you all another Battle Report in the same week, as I’m slowly but surely learning more and more about the Ten Thunders and all of their Masters. In today’s game, I used Shenlong vs. Rasputina, in a strategy that was just recently released as part of the Gaining Grounds tournament format. Strategy & Deployment: Collect the Bounty / Close Deployment My schemes: Murder Protégé, Breakthrough (Both revealed) Opponents’ schemes: Murder Protégé, Breakthrough (Both revealed) My Crew: Shenlong Upgrades: Wandering River Style Peasant Sensei Yu Upgrades: Promising Disciple, Low River Style Kang Upgrades: Hard Worker Izamu, the Armor Upgrades: Recalled Training The Loneswordsman Upgrades: Recalled Training Opponents’ Crew: Rasputina Upgrades: Shattered Heart, Cold Nights, Imbued Energies Joss Upgrades: Imbued Energies Ice Golem Upgrades: Imbued Energies December Acolyte December Acolyte Ice Gamin Ice Gamin Ice Gamin Terrain and Deployment: There were 4 Ht 3 buildings forming a semi circle around the board, with some Ht 2 walls and Ht 1 barrels scattered about. In a small part of the board, there was a river stream, with a plank bridge, which was decided to be severe terrain, unless you were moving over the plank. A few more buildings in the further off corners, and the table was set. No naturally hazardous terrain. He deploys first, with Rasputina in the back, the Ice Golem at the end of the deployment zone, with the 3 Ice Gamin flanking him on both sides and the rear, and Joss about halfway between the Ice Golem and Rasputina. The December Acolytes are deployed in the left and right side of the board, just behind a Ht 2 wall and a Ht 3 building, just outside of 6” of my deployment zone. My crew is deployed just about all along the furthest edge, starting from left to right, Izamu, Shenlong, The Lone Swordsman, Kang, and Sensei Yu, spread out about 2 inches from each other, with the Peasant 1” behind Shenlong. Turn 1: The turn started for me with the one Peasant making his (1) Interact Action to summon the second Peasant. I win initiative, and elect to go second. He begins with the December Acolyte behind the wall, and shoots at Kang, damaging him for 2 Wds. I respond with the summoned Peasant by casting “Gifts of the Temple” on Shenlong for Focus +1. His other December Acolyte then shoots Sensei Yu, and damages him for 4 Wds. I then use the other Peasant to cast “Gifts of the Temple” on Shenlong for another Focus +1, and then move up towards the wall where the first December Acolyte was hiding behind. Rasputina then puts up Ice Pillars between Shenlong and his own side of the board, blocking LOS to 2 of the Ice Gamins and the Ice Golem. She then shoots at Sensei Yu through the December Acolyte, and damages him for 2 more Wds. Now Shenlong goes… He starts off by casting “Mighty Gust” on Izamu, pushes him just past the Ht 2 wall, into melee range of the closer December Acolyte, and drops his Focus by 1 to give him Fast. He then casts it on The Loneswordsman, spends his last Focus to make him Fast, pushing him towards the other December Acolyte, towards my right. Moves up a few inches, and then (0) Action “Monk of Many Styles”, switches styles with Sensei Yu. He then sends an Ice Gamin up towards my right, and goes Defensive Stance. Izamu acts, sacrifices Recalled Training, Melee Expert attacks the December Acolyte, and one shot killed him, after cheating with the Red Joker. Izamu then moves into position to charge an Ice Gamin on the left flank, takes that out in two attacks, and avoids the explosion damage because of the 3” reach. He then sends the last Ice Gamin into base contact with Izamu. Sensei Yu, having switched styles earlier with Shenlong , now casts “Airburst” on The Lone Swordsman, and casts “Mighty Gust” on Kang, giving him “Fast”, moving both closer to the other December Acolyte. Finally, he cast his (0) Action “Disciple” to use Shenlong’s “Mastery”, and gained Focus and Defensive +1. His Ice Golem then activates, and charges at Izamu, taking off 4 wounds. Kang then charges the other December Acolyte, and brings him down to 2 Wds in his 3 attacks. Joss walks up the board, and shoots at the Loneswordsman, hitting him for 1 wound. Finally, the Loneswordsman takes out the last December Acolyte. Turn 2: Shenlong starts the turn with his (0) action “Monk of Many Styles” to switch back to “Wandering River Style”. I win initiative and elect to go first. The previously summoned Peasant walks up to Shenlong, and casts “Gifts of the Temple” for Focus +1. Rasputina then attempts to shoot into the melee between Izamu, Ice Gamin, and Ice Golem, through Joss, (after giving him “Frozen Heart”) with “Freeze Over”, but misses the Ice Gamin on two attempts. Shenlong now goes, and casts “Mighty Gust” on Sensei Yu, pushing towards Kang and The Loneswordsman, and makes him Fast. Moves to the back of the wall where the December Acolyte used to be, uses “Monk of Many Styles” to switch back to “Low River Style”, and heals Izamu for 2 Wds. The other Ice Gamin now charges at Kang, and hits him for 1 Wd. Izamu then attacks the Ice Golem, but fails to damage him on all 3 attacks. His Ice Golem then attacks Izamu, and brings him down to 1 Wd. Sensei Yu then activates, and first uses “Mighty Gust” on The Loneswordsman, pushing him slightly closer to Joss, and makes him Fast. He then casts “Disciple” for “Monk of Many Styles”, switching back to “Low River Style”, and spends his last 2 AP healing himself with “Stones on the River” for 4 damage. He then activates the Ice Gamin engaged with Izamu, and kills Izamu finally, accomplishing Murder Protégé. The Loneswordsman, now sacrifices Recalled Training, and charges at Joss, and since Joss is a Living Construct, he gets a to MI and damage flips from being within Kang’s aura, and inflicts 8 Wds. He then uses his (0) Action “You Shall Never See Another Sunrise”, and names Joss as the target. Joss then activates, sacrifices “Imbued Energies”, and attacks The Loneswordsman 3 times, hitting him for only 3 damage though. The Loneswordsman reactivates, and manages to take down Joss in two attacks, accomplishing Murder Protégé, and then uses his last AP to drop a scheme marker in his deployment zone. Kang finishes off the Ice Gamin that charged him, bringing him down to 1 Wd from the explosion, and my last Peasant then casts “Gifts of the Temple” on Shenlong for another Focus +1. End of Turn 2 Scoring: I’m winning 4-3, as we both accomplished Murder Protégé, and I outscored him on Bounty Points (4-2). Turn 3: Start with my (0) Action “Mastery” and gain Focus and Defensive +1. I win initiative, and act with Sensei Yu first, who casts “Airburst” on Kang first, and then "Mighty Gust" on The Loneswordsman (with Fast) pushing both away from the Ice Golem’s charge range. He activates Rasputina, sacrifices “Imbued Energies” who shoots first at one of my Peasants in the open with December’s Curse, and manages to catch the other Peasant and Shenlong in the blast template. She then kills Kang, and then shoots at The Lone Swordsman twice, but fails to wound him. Shenlong then activates, uses “Mastery” for another Focus and Defensive +1, moves, and charges the Ice Golem with a VERY Focused attack. Managed to cheat damage with the Red Joker, and bring it down half it’s Wds. The Ice Golem then sacrifices “Imbued Energies” and takes 4 attacks on Shenlong, hitting him for a total of 3 damage. The Lone Swordsman then (0) Action “Wanders the Earth”, and charges the Ice Golem, managing to kill it with all 3 of his attacks. Both he and Shenlong take 3 damage from the explosion. His Ice Gamin then attempts to attack Shenlong, but fails. My last Peasant then moves up to the centerline of the board. End of Turn 3 Scoring: Tied 4-4, since he outscored me on Bounty Points (3-2). Turn 4: Start the turn with my Peasant taking his (1) Interact Action by dropping a scheme marker just past the center line, and summons the second Peasant back again. He wins initiative and his Ice Gamin tries to leave melee combat with Shenlong, but fails on both attempts. The Loneswordsman charges Rasputina, and manages to damage her for 2 Wds, but she ends his activation with her Defensive trigger. Rasputina then casts “December’s Touch” on herself, casts “Biting Chill” on The Loneswordsman, but fails to wound him, and then ends her activation. Both Peasants move up closer to Shenlong, with the unsummoned one casting “Gifts of the Temple” on Shenlong for Focus +1. Sensei Yu then moves up closer to The Loneswordsman, casts “Disciple” for “Mastery”, and heals The Loneswordsman for 4 Wds. Shenlong then activates and uses (0) action “Monk of Many Styles” to switch back to “Low River Style”, heals himself for 2, kills the Ice Gamin with a Focused attack, takes another 2 damage from the explosion, and walks towards The Loneswordsman. End of Turn 4 Scoring: I’m winning 5-4, since I outscored him on Bounty Points (1-0). Turn 5: Start my turn with “Mastery” for Focus and Defensive +1. He wins initiative, and moves Rasputina around The Loneswordsman to engage Shenlong, and attempts to use “Biting Chill” on him, hitting him for 2 damage, and triggering to take the attack again. Shenlong is hit again, but I burn my last Soulstone to prevent all the damage. Sensei Yu activates, casts “Disciple” for “Mastery”, and heals Shenlong for 4 damage and then heals The Loneswordsman for 2 damage”. Both my Peasants cast “Gift of the Temple” on Shenlong for Focus +1 each. Shenlong then takes a Focused attack at Rasputina, but is unable to continue since she triggered another tome on her Defensive flip. The Loneswordsman now activates, attacks and misses her, and (unknowingly at the time) ends his activation because of her Defensive trigger. He flips for Turn 6, and flips less than a 10. Game ends at a final score of 8-4, since I managed to accomplish Breakthrough with 3 VP. Lessons learned: After reading Rasputina’s defensive trigger at the end of the game, I realized that she needs to be wounded first before it takes effect. That said, The Loneswordsman would’ve had at least one more shot at her. She still had 7 Wds, but not knowing what else he had in his hand, he may not have been able to pull off the trigger when he needed it to. Other thing I didn’t remember was the fact that Sensei’s MI attack ignores Defensive triggers. If I had remembered that, I would’ve spent the efforts with Shenlong to “Mighty Gust” Sensei Yu with Fast and move him further along the board to get in range of Rasputina, and let him do the rest of the work. Final thoughts on game: Truthfully speaking, I did not expect this list to function as well as it did. My intentions originally were to use this as a funny list in the last round of a tournament, should I feel that I hadn’t had a prayer in winning by then. Turns out it did pretty well in the end, so I was pleasantly surprised by it. I made two tactical errors, when I failed to heal Kang when I had the chance to, or even use a soulstone to prevent the damage he had taken on Turn 3, and then with Sensei Yu’s attacks at the end of the game. Aside from that, I thought the game went very well for me. This was the first time I used The Loneswordsman’s Reactivate ability, and it proved to be very fruitful, given that he had been Fast and had used Recalled Training at the start of his first activation that turn. I’m tempted to try Shenlong in a “Reckoning” game now, seeing as how he can make the crew around him so much better. Thanks for readying, everyone! And as always, comments and critiques are welcome. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarlett fever Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 Do love the Swordsman with Shenlong, that's a crew of killers right there. One small point. In turn 2 Shenlong swaps from Wandering River to Low River (giving Yu Wandering River). Then Yu activates, uses Wandering River and then swaps to Low River using Disciple/Monk of Many Styles. Don't use Monk of Many Styles on Yu to gain a limited upgrade that Shenlong is currently carrying. Shenlong will discard his upgrade for Yu to attach it, leaving Shenlong without a limited upgrade and therefore without the ability to use Monk of Many Styles ("Choose a limited upgrade with the restriction of Shenlong. If another friendly model has the chosen upgrade attached, discard it. This model may discard a Limited upgrade it has attached to attach the chosen upgrade"). Technically from turn 2 only Yu would have been able to use Shenlong's upgrades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rurouni Benshin Posted August 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 Hmm... So am I to understand that they can't swap freely between each other? I was under the impression that with Monk of Many Styles they could. Judging from what you're saying, it seems they can only carry one, and if the situation arised, Shenlong could take Sensei Yu's (or vice versa) and leave the other one without a style at all. Is that correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rurouni Benshin Posted August 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 Ok, just reread, the "Promising Disciple" upgrade for Sensei Yu. "Journeyman of the Four Styles": If a friendly Shenlong discards an upgrade, this model may immediately attach it ignoring all restrictions. If this model has more than one Limited Upgrade attached, it must immediately discard one of them. Monk of Many Styles ("Choose a limited upgrade with the restriction of Shenlong. If another friendly model has the chosen upgrade attached, discard it. This model may discard a Limited upgrade it has attached to attach the chosen upgrade"). So if I'm understanding the wording, if Shenlong were to take a style from Sensei Yu, and then discard the one he currently has, Sensei Yu could immediately attach it to him. Am I wrong for presuming that? On another note... If I were to put an upgrade such as Recalled Training on Shenlong, discard it and use it, it would also stand to reason that Sensei Yu could immediately attach it to himself also. Clarification would be appreciated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 Monk of many styles lets Shenlong swicth to one of his 4 styles, as long as he already has one of them. He doesn't need to switch to a style that Sensi yu is using, he can pick any one of the 4 limited upgrdaes. If Sensi Yu is using the one he picked, then sensi Yu has to discard it. Sensi Yu can pick up the upgrade Shenlong discarded (with promising disciple), to get him a new style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rurouni Benshin Posted August 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 Wait... So just because I paid for 2 Shenlong/Sensei Restricted upgrades, I'm still free to pick and choose between all 4 in the middle of the game? And if that is the case, then in theory, I wouldn't even have to pay for one in the first place. All I'd have to do is use the ability, and voila... I have it. Correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 Monk of Many Styles ("Choose a limited upgrade with the restriction of Shenlong. If another friendly model has the chosen upgrade attached, discard it. This model may discard a Limited upgrade it has attached to attach the chosen upgrade"). Wait... So just because I paid for 2 Shenlong/Sensei Restricted upgrades, I'm still free to pick and choose between all 4 in the middle of the game? And if that is the case, then in theory, I wouldn't even have to pay for one in the first place. All I'd have to do is use the ability, and voila... I have it. Correct? Shenlong will need to have a limited upgrade to attach the named upgrade. But he can name any limited upgrade with the restriction of Shenlong, regardless of if it is in play or not. Sensi Yu needs to either have an attached limted upgarde to make use of Monk of Mnay styles, or he need to have Promising Disciple to gain a limited upgrade. So you do need to buy at least 2 upgrades to get it to work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rurouni Benshin Posted August 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 The last sentence says that if he has a limited upgrade that he "may" discard it though, which would imply that if he didn't have one, he wouldn't have to discard it. That leads me to believe that he doesn't need to start with one in order to get one. And since Sensei can mimic his ability, it would mean the same thing for him, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent of the Breach Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 The last sentence says that if he has a limited upgrade that he "may" discard it though, which would imply that if he didn't have one, he wouldn't have to discard it. That leads me to believe that he doesn't need to start with one in order to get one. And since Sensei can mimic his ability, it would mean the same thing for him, no? I will said that Shenlong needs to have a limited upgrade to be able to change it. But, yes, Sensei doesn't need to pay for it; just grab the first one that Shenlong drops with his promising disciple. Good battle report, btw 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rurouni Benshin Posted August 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 I understand what you're saying, but the fact it says "may" still makes me want think otherwise though. Maybe someone from Wyrd would hopefully chime in. And thank you! I aim to start writing more as I play more fun games! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 Monk of Many Styles ("Choose a limited upgrade with the restriction of Shenlong. If another friendly model has the chosen upgrade attached, discard it. This model may discard a Limited upgrade it has attached to attach the chosen upgrade"). I understand what you're saying, but the fact it says "may" still makes me want think otherwise though. Maybe someone from Wyrd would hopefully chime in. And thank you! I aim to start writing more as I play more fun games! You don't have to discard a limited upgrade. But if you don't you don't get to attach one. The action requires you to name a Limited upgrade with Shelong restriction. It then forces you to discard it from any friendly model in play. Then you may chose to discard a limited upgrade from this model. If you do this discard, you then attach the named upgrade. If you don't discard a limted upgrade, you don't get to attach the named upgrade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rurouni Benshin Posted August 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 You don't have to discard a limited upgrade. But if you don't you don't get to attach one. The action requires you to name a Limited upgrade with Shelong restriction. It then forces you to discard it from any friendly model in play. Then you may chose to discard a limited upgrade from this model. If you do this discard, you then attach the named upgrade. If you don't discard a limted upgrade, you don't get to attach the named upgrade. See again, it's still in the wording. Let me go line by line, and explain my logic and thought process behind each one.... Current situation: Neither Shenlong or Sensei have a limited upgrade attached. Sensei has "Promising Disciple". Sentence 1: "Choose a limited upgrade with the restriction of Shenlong". Logic: Ok, simple enough. I choose "Wandering River Style". Sentience 2: "If another friendly model has the chosen upgrade attached, discard it." Logic: Sure, no problem. If it were already attached to a model, I would have to discard it. However, being that it's not, I don't have to because the first word in the sentence says "If", which would imply that if it doesn't have the upgrade attached, I wouldn't have to discard it. Sentence 3: "This model may discard a Limited upgrade it has attached to attach the chosen upgrade" Logic: Ok, sure. Except I don't have a Limited upgrade attached already, so therefore no need to discard one. Emphasis being on the word "may". Does this seem to make sense? All of the operative words that are being used in the ability ("if" and "may") don't really imply that I have to have any of them to start with in order for the ability to be used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 Sentence 3: "This model may discard a Limited upgrade it has attached to attach the chosen upgrade" Logic: Ok, sure. Except I don't have a Limited upgrade attached already, so therefore no need to discard one. Emphasis being on the word "may". It doesn't say you automatically attach the chosen upgrade. It says you may discard a limited upgrade TO attach the chosen upgrade. You may do A to do B does not allow you to do B regardless of wethier you did A or not. Try "You may spend $100 dollars at Gen con to get Miss Ann Thrope for free. " You are only going to get Mis Ann Thrope if you spent the $100 dollers. the sentance you want it to say is " this model may attach the named upgrade, if it does it discards all other Limited upgrades attached." But thats not what it says. You have the choice of paying the cost of discarding a limited upgrade to attach the named upgrade. If you don't pay teh cost you don't get the reward 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rurouni Benshin Posted August 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 You have the choice of paying the cost of discarding a limited upgrade to attach the named upgrade. If you don't pay teh cost you don't get the reward See, this is where I disagree with you. Where is it interpreted that I HAVE TO pay anything at all? And the sentence does, in fact, say as I had stated earlier. So I really don't see where I'm being forced to pay for the cost of having a new upgrade attached. In any rate, I'm putting this to question in the Rules Clarification portion of the forum. Hopefully there, a resolution will come. Thank you again for all your input, everyone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertmac Posted August 14, 2015 Report Share Posted August 14, 2015 Adran capitalised the point. It says you may discard a limited upgrade TO attach the chosen upgrade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saje Posted October 24, 2015 Report Share Posted October 24, 2015 don't know if you went to the rules forums but it has already been discussed. The 'may' gives you the option to discard it if you so wish, you don't have to, but if you don't you can't attach. 'may discard to attach' (simplified) it's like saying 'may pay more to get more' you don't have to pay more, but you don't get more if you don't pay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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