Jewomie Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 I was thinking this same question in the last few weeks. I love my archers, so I thought I'd see how the snipers hold up. Three games in (two with shenlong one with brewmaster) still not really loving them. It's not about what they can't do. I think the snipers are great. however, in my local group players tend to go for that turn one or early turn two combat right in the middle of the table, and I have two options on how to deal with it. 1. drop a sniper nearby with FtS and shoot oncoming stuff and eventually get into melee... 2. hire archers and shoot them even after they are in melee. for my stones and my local opponents, archers have won every time. might not always be the case, and i'll pick up the snipers eventually, but for now, it's hard to choose the guy who cannot shoot safely into melee over the one who can do it all day and not worry about hitting is buddy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eclipse Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 Who said you have to jump in the melee? They run to the middle of the table and shout their stupid challenges; fine, you then pelt them with sniper bullets from afar and with hail of arrows from behind cover. Let them come and try to take out you shooters.. then is the time for your scary melee to jump in from ambush and wreck face.There is no reason not to try and outmaneuver your opponent, putting them in an unfavorable position and using the terrain to your advantage to control the flow - unless both of you want to jump and tear at each other. Which is cool and enjoyable sometimes, too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewomie Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 well, when they are going out of their way to get in melee with you, it's going to happen whether you want it to or not. But I see your point. Although, when they do get close and my scary melee trap goes off, as you suggested, the snipers become far less useful, or have to resort to using their knives, whereas my archers can just keep on firing.Not to say that the snipers don't have their place, they clearly do. I just tend to get more mileage out of the archers. This is, of course, assuming we are picking sides. I suppose the ideal scenario is to take one of each, and let the sniper be the body guard the archer needs. lol. he can rush any oncoming attackers into melee, and the archer can shoot into that little tussle without fear of hitting his buddy. everyone wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClickClickDeath Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 Just started Malifaux myself, figured I'm not gonna sweat over which of the two to get, I'll just eat crackers till the end of the month and buy one of each! Thanks for the great replies, it helped put some perspective on the two units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstorz Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 Sorry to hijack the thread a bit, but has anyone had success with Archers with Lynch? I could see potential with Blot the Sky on Huggy, have a few archers following him around as support. His large base blocks them, they can support while he is engaged and once Huggy goes down they can use their 8 inch charge to retreat to the main group without causing any damage to your model until Lynch can bring Huggy back.They also benefit from Ace in the Hole with Rapid Fire. Seems like they would work well with him.I am trying to get a 10T Lynch list that takes advantage of Ace in the Hole as much as possible. Thinking Archers, Brothers, possibly High River Monks, Wastrels. Not sure what else uses a card discard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santaclaws01 Posted September 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 You need to declare a target for a charge, so they can't use it to run away unless there's an enemy behind them for some reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstorz Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 Couldn't you charge one of your own models? Since they don't have attack, they won't cause any damage, but it would be a quick way to move 8". Unless charge actions can only be declared against enemy models. I don't have the book with me to check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigHammer Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 It's their lack of a close range attack that prevents them from charging anything.However, you have just given me a very good idea of how to use Mounted Guard (infiltrated by McCabe) to relocate Archers very quickly... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstorz Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 Ah, like I said, no book with me to look at the rules for charging. Thanks for the info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santaclaws01 Posted September 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2015 Couldn't you charge one of your own models? Since they don't have attack, they won't cause any damage, but it would be a quick way to move 8". Unless charge actions can only be declared against enemy models. I don't have the book with me to check.As Big Hammer said:It's their lack of a close range attack that prevents them from charging anything.However, you have just given me a very good idea of how to use Mounted Guard (infiltrated by McCabe) to relocate Archers very quickly...You can't charge friendlies with Thunder Archers(unless you give them some way to have a ), because for a model to be able to charge it has to end it's movement with the target in your engagement range, which Thunder Archers don't have. So actually you wouldn't even be able to charge enemies behind you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eclipse Posted September 6, 2015 Report Share Posted September 6, 2015 Sorry to hijack the thread a bit, but has anyone had success with Archers with Lynch? I could see potential with Blot the Sky on Huggy, have a few archers following him around as support. His large base blocks them, they can support while he is engaged and once Huggy goes down they can use their 8 inch charge to retreat to the main group without causing any damage to your model until Lynch can bring Huggy back.They also benefit from Ace in the Hole with Rapid Fire. Seems like they would work well with him.I am trying to get a 10T Lynch list that takes advantage of Ace in the Hole as much as possible. Thinking Archers, Brothers, possibly High River Monks, Wastrels. Not sure what else uses a card discard.I have found that having even one archer with Blot the Sky has a tremendous impact on the game - the psychological effect is nothing to sneeze at. So far I have used them successfully with Lynch and Yan Lo (Toshiro). Blot the Sky on Lynch from behind cover and when something get near, destroy it in a single activation. Also Yamaziko is a great Archer platform, protecting them from getting charge and engaging from a long distance (for melee). Sidir can also babysit them and even jump to their aid once per turn. Also, if you have McGabe, you can toss them the Saber and the Archers can FINALLY charge. Haven't tried babysitting them with Huggy yet as I often run him apart from most of the crew to either run schemes or rush into the enemy ranks, but the idea is intersting . Other models that discard a card - Torakage for Rapid Fire, Oiran for defensive, Fuhatsu and Sidir for self-heal, Lazarus for Auto-Fire (probably missing some things still). Also models that have many + or - flips during their activation have a better chance to pick up an ace for Lynch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstorz Posted September 8, 2015 Report Share Posted September 8, 2015 Sorry to hijack the thread a bit, but has anyone had success with Archers with Lynch? I could see potential with Blot the Sky on Huggy, have a few archers following him around as support. His large base blocks them, they can support while he is engaged and once Huggy goes down they can use their 8 inch charge to retreat to the main group without causing any damage to your model until Lynch can bring Huggy back.They also benefit from Ace in the Hole with Rapid Fire. Seems like they would work well with him.I am trying to get a 10T Lynch list that takes advantage of Ace in the Hole as much as possible. Thinking Archers, Brothers, possibly High River Monks, Wastrels. Not sure what else uses a card discard.I have found that having even one archer with Blot the Sky has a tremendous impact on the game - the psychological effect is nothing to sneeze at. So far I have used them successfully with Lynch and Yan Lo (Toshiro). Blot the Sky on Lynch from behind cover and when something get near, destroy it in a single activation. Also Yamaziko is a great Archer platform, protecting them from getting charge and engaging from a long distance (for melee). Sidir can also babysit them and even jump to their aid once per turn. Also, if you have McGabe, you can toss them the Saber and the Archers can FINALLY charge. Haven't tried babysitting them with Huggy yet as I often run him apart from most of the crew to either run schemes or rush into the enemy ranks, but the idea is intersting . Other models that discard a card - Torakage for Rapid Fire, Oiran for defensive, Fuhatsu and Sidir for self-heal, Lazarus for Auto-Fire (probably missing some things still). Also models that have many + or - flips during their activation have a better chance to pick up an ace for Lynch. Thanks Eclipse. I figured most people would try and attack Huggy before trying to go the 3 inches around him to attack the archers. Plus his base would block their base. they essentially become additional attacks on whatever he is attacking or a deterent to whatever is coming to support the forward model.I am trying to paint 50 ss worth of models for an upcoming tournament. Just finishing up the Illuminated this week. After that I will start trying to cycle some of those models in and let you now how I do. I think Sidir or Fuhatsu would work well with the archer as well. In a practice game this week I had 2 torakage. While I didn't use their shuriken much, they were able to skirt the edges and got me the 3 pts for power ritual while Hungering Darkness, lynch and a few monks of low river held the center in a guard the stash scenario. Monks of low river didn't last as long as I would have liked against Rasputina, but I am trying out different builds while I get the "boxset lynch" models finished up. Now I have 2 stiched together done as well, so things should be a little more interesting at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eclipse Posted September 8, 2015 Report Share Posted September 8, 2015 You are welcome I would first think of putting the upgrade either on an immovable fortress type of model, or on a ranged attacker that has decent odds of surviving. The former can be Ototo, Yamaziko, Fuhatsu, often also Sidir or Toshiro. The latter are ranged attackers such as, once again, Fuhatsu, Sidir, but also potentially Lynch, etc. So long as you also protect the model that carries the upgrade you can get more mileage out of the archers and control the flow of battle. Do be careful not to use them against crews with lots of armor or healing as this can mitigate the impact of your combo. Also be very careful with Fuhatsu's placing. He is generally thought to suck, and with good reason as he does as little as two damage some games - but also wrecks enemy teams in others. So long as they can't ignore his armor and hard to wound though or land many paper cut hits on him, he will survive AND heal up. 3 VP for 10 SS (12 with Recalled Training and Blot the Sky) - not a bad trade-off, I'd say As for Huggy, if you plant him as babysitter for the archers, do be careful because of his low df. Especially beware enemy casting attacks and blast attacks. You can put Smoke Grenades on him (love the upgrade!) for - to all attacks against him further then 6" - where they are in range for Heed My Voice Or use Recalled Training with him, or even Broken Promises as long as this allows you to keep control of the game and earn those VP. Most importantly, try things out, have fun, and see what and when works for you 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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