How Initiative Reflips Work

[Dumb Luck]

I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this but I have a feeling it is going to come up in a game tomorrow, so I wanted it cleared up. 

 

When a player decides to spend a stone to refiip initiative, do they flip the card right away before the other player spends their stone or is it like other times when both players can stone for the same thing (i.e. in duels, both players declare stone usage before flipping)?

 

Thanks!

[rgarbonzo]

I think it is a same time thing, you declare using a SS for init, then your opponent can do the same BEFORE you reflip your init

[Victoria]

We've always played that you could wait to see what was flipped before declaring.

[McSwervy]

From the core rulebook, page 25:

 

Reflip Initiative:

 

A player may spend a Soulstone from the Crew's Soulstone pool to reflip initiative if she is unhappy with the result.

 

Seems pretty straightforward to me, you see what you flip then spend a stone if you don't like it.

 

On page 35 it goes more in depth under part 2 of the initiative phase Use Soulstones: 

 

Beginning with the player who has the lowest value card each player may elect to reflip her car (or cards) y spending a Soulstone from her Soulstone Pool, even if one or more players flipped a Joker.

Edited April 21, 2015 by McSwervy

[Dumb Luck]

Thought that was the case. Thats how I've played it. Thanks!

[asrian]

Keep in mind if playing against Tara with her Knowledge of Eternity upgrade she gets a    to initiative flips, so will flip two initially and two for spending a Soul Stone.

Also, Doppelganger and Trixiebelle, who can both cheat initiative flips from the player's control hand, must do so prior to any Soul Stones spent for reflips.

[jonahmaul]

I've debated this with Dumb Luck and think that the player with the lower value spends a SS and flips before the player with the higher card chooses to do so.  The rulebook states 'Beginning with the player who has the lowest value card each player may elect to reflip her car (or cards) by spending a Soulstone from her Soulstone Pool'.  So you begin with the lower card (obviously) but then that player has to reflip by spending a SS which happens immediately (like something like Eat You Fill - you end your activation and heal full wounds; both parts need to happen to take place) before moving on to the player with the higher card.  This is the way we've always played it and I can't see anything in the rulebook that states that you both have to decide on your SS use before making flips unlike in duels where you have to declare SS use beforehand (rather than spend them as you do for Initiative).

[Dumb Luck]

I thought I'd ask as I'm playing Atkins today and he is not as much of a man of reason as yourself Jonah!

[zFiend]

We have always played it so that the player with the lower card spends SS if he gets a higher card than the other players then he can spend SS if he wants to. It always seemed clear cut to us.

[jonahmaul]

I can definitely see how it's not clear cut and could be interpreted either way because with duels you do declare first.  But the way I read it is that the lower player chooses and flips before the higher player gets a choice.  Though there is a case for it being slightly unfair.

[MasterDisaster]

I've always treated the Initiative Flip like a sort of Opposed Duel. Both players flip, the loser gets the chance to re-flip first, they SS and reflip. If they are now winning then the other player can choose to SS and reflip... so on and so forth.