thegoatgod_pan Posted May 7, 2015 Report Share Posted May 7, 2015 I thought the leader of the crew always counted as the one holding and drawing the cards: e.g. most of Lynch's abilities only apply when he is drawing, but also assume that he is drawing: e.g. "Pay Up: This model flips a card from its deck for each enemy..." Pay Up specifies that Lynch is drawing from "its deck", although it comes right after right after Mulligan which is "Discard up to three cards and then draw the same number" with no indication that Lynch is doing the drawing. This reading is also consistent with the way upgrades affecting the player's hand are all leader upgrades and disappear when the leader dies: e.g. arcane reservoir. I think all actions involving the deck outside of another model's turn are by default the leader's actions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myyrä Posted May 7, 2015 Report Share Posted May 7, 2015 I think all actions involving the deck outside of another model's turn are by default the leader's actions.You would be wrong. There is no such mention in the rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegoatgod_pan Posted May 7, 2015 Report Share Posted May 7, 2015 oops double post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patzer Posted May 7, 2015 Report Share Posted May 7, 2015 No, its the players' actions. Otherwise you would not be able to do it if you leader died; like Magical Extension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegoatgod_pan Posted May 7, 2015 Report Share Posted May 7, 2015 You would be wrong. There is no such mention in the rules. Well the alternative is to designate all flips as done by the player by default (when it is not a model's turn etc), and unless specified otherwise but that is also an unwritten assumption. Under "flips", the generic section in the little book reads "When a flip is required, the model turns over one or more cards" again suggesting that the rules always designate an acting model and never a player as doing the flipping, so it is not unreasonable that the model designated "leader", be it master or henchman, does the flipping when it is the "crews" turn to flip, or a similarly non-specific occasion. It isn't very clear about it: e.g. first it says players cheat fate, but in the section on cheating fate it is "Once a model has chosen the active card from the flip...it may then Cheat Fate" so again it seems like a model is always the active agent. It is quite ambiguous, but an ability granting soul stone manipulation should apply at all the times when soul stone manipulation would be useful, but that is just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myyrä Posted May 7, 2015 Report Share Posted May 7, 2015 Well the alternative is to designate all flips as done by the player by default (when it is not a model's turn etc), and unless specified otherwise but that is also an unwritten assumption. Under "flips", the generic section in the little book reads "When a flip is required, the model turns over one or more cards" again suggesting that the rules always designate an acting model and never a player as doing the flipping, so it is not unreasonable that the model designated "leader", be it master or henchman, does the flipping when it is the "crews" turn to flip, or a similarly non-specific occasion. It isn't very clear about it: e.g. first it says players cheat fate, but in the section on cheating fate it is "Once a model has chosen the active card from the flip...it may then Cheat Fate" so again it seems like a model is always the active agent. It is quite ambiguous, but an ability granting soul stone manipulation should apply at all the times when soul stone manipulation would be useful, but that is just my opinion.It is said in the rules (pg. 30), that it is a player and not a model doing the actual flipping. (I'm not sure they would be able to do that themselves.) I think it's pretty reasonable to assume that when the rulebook says the players flip for initiative, it means that the players flip for initiative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegoatgod_pan Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 It is said in the rules (pg. 30), that it is a player and not a model doing the actual flipping. (I'm not sure they would be able to do that themselves.) I think it's pretty reasonable to assume that when the rulebook says the players flip for initiative, it means that the players flip for initiative. I stand corrected Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeregrineFalcon Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 This simply needs FAQ/Errata it is something I've discussed in my local area. I have always played that Lucius couldn't do it when ss for cards, but Wings of Darkness makes me second guess that. It is clearly an oversight and some clarity is needed. With that said, I have changed my tune and believe that Lucius CAN in fact use devil's deal when soulstoning for cards. I think its just an oversight, but RAW I think he can't. Again, FAQ/Errata necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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