Barbaros vs Samael

[Vic_bull]

LOL! My friend has got himself McMourning, because he can't stand the look of nurses. He plans to use them along with the executioners and other nasty staff playing for the guild.

 

Already activated? Well,there is some logic but still, why? Not to defend if something goes wrong?

[Patzer]

Nurses attacks WP and can paralyse. So Lilith needs to be cautious when going after them. With that said, as long as you got the cards in hand, two swings after Tangle Shadowed one in should be more than enough to take it down.

[Dirial]

Exactly. I mentioned to always go after Nurses because they are not only versatile, but they are supremely dangerous for Lilith. Her Wp is her weakness, and Nurses have one of the best Wp attacks in the game. Because of that, I mentioned already activated Nurses, so they cannot attack you after you get them Tangled.

 

If you tangle them, try to kill them fast. If you can get them in one blow, do it, because of their Df trigger.

[Nical]

LOL! My friend has got himself McMourning, because he can't stand the look of nurses. He plans to use them along with the executioners and other nasty staff playing for the guild.

 

Already activated? Well,there is some logic but still, why? Not to defend if something goes wrong?

 

Logic is simple. This Tactic's main objective is 'Killing Opponent's Essential Models without Risks'. Rapid Growth is just bonus objective. 

But you can go for the effect of killing two birds with one stone by their synergy. 'Without risks' means activated model is better target. 

 

If your Lilith doesn't kill target in 2 Actions(1 Action used for Tangle Shadows), Opponent must activate targeted model to do 'something'.

For Example, Nurse can paralyze your model as Tom says. And Some models can 'escape' by their Action or Ability. 

 

So We say you must target 'activated' model.  

[Vic_bull]

I see. I read it as a general advice. As a specific advice against the nurses it totally makes sence. Also the nurses are serious buffers and it's a good idea to get rid of them first hand since they are relatevely easy to kill and a lot of starategy is depending on them. Thanks.

 

Any general advice for the deplyment? This time I lost the initiative and had a combined punch of Sonnia, Samael and the Lone Marshall against Lillith. My opponent is afraid of her. Also he relies on the ranged tactics. I was lucky to get rid of "Everburning" condition because of nearby Tot.

[Nical]

I see. I read it as a general advice. As a specific advice against the nurses it totally makes sence. Also the nurses are serious buffers and it's a good idea to get rid of them first hand since they are relatevely easy to kill and a lot of starategy is depending on them. Thanks.

 

Any general advice for the deplyment? This time I lost the initiative and had a combined punch of Sonnia, Samael and the Lone Marshall against Lillith. My opponent is afraid of her. Also he relies on the ranged tactics. I was lucky to get rid of "Everburning" condition because of nearby Tot.

 

Lilith is Good Melee-Master, but she is better as Board Controller by her terrain control.  

(If you really want to use more melee-focused Crew, I think Jacob Lynch is good master for you.)  

 

Always try to keep your models out of your opponent's sight. Lilith don't need LoS for Ca action and Charge. 

Tangle Shadows is Ca action, so you can kidnap opponent's models out of their sight, without risks.

 

And Make Terrains using Beckon Malifaux to do that.  

So many people like Waldgeists because they can do like Lilith. 

[Vic_bull]

Yes, thanks. But I mean grouping. Last time i had put them in to the loose line against the leading edge of the deployment zone. Maybe I should have made two groups? Shure, its an objective dependant but still, maybe it's a good idea for someone to hang out nearby the Lillith for example.

[Dirial]

Yeah, keep her out of LoS. She doesn't need it, so why give the opponent an advantage?

 

Deployment is an art, and I have seriously not mastered it yet. I'll refrain from giving advice on the subject that bites me consistently....

 

Illusionary Forest may well be Lilith's best action. That thing will, sooner or later, win you games.

[Nical]

Yes, thanks. But I mean grouping. Last time i had put them in to the loose line against the leading edge of the deployment zone. Maybe I should have made two groups? Shure, its an objective dependant but still, maybe it's a good idea for someone to hang out nearby the Lillith for example.

 

It can works as groups, too. Hide Lilith & others. When you want to kidnap, Activate Lilith to kidnap first, and Activate others to finish target.   

But Lilith doesn't need to depend on Crew's formation, so others can be deployed in other places for something like your schemes & strategy.

Just Keep out of sight and Take useful Place. It is main logic for Neverborn's Deployment. 

 

For Example, You said Your Strategy was Turf war, and Schemes were Outflank and Line in the sand in last match.

These means you must have split your crew in End turn. So deployment focusing Center for Turf war and keeping models for Outflank might be good. 

But In other Strategy and Schemes, Points are different. For Example, Reconnoiter + Power Ritual = you must split your crew for VP in almost all turns.     

 

So I think you must think about Strategies and Schemes before you think about deployment.    

[Vic_bull]

Ok, thank for the input. Lot's of things to think about and consider. I have to study the abilities of my models better. We're thinking to start out a small campaign in near future to keep us motivated to play more and learn. The new system look cool.

[Vic_bull]

Looks like we're going to start the campaign this weekend I talked about earlier. At least we would like to. But after reading the beta rules a couple of times all I had left is some headache and confusion. We're only two players actually seeking some linked games to keep us motivated to play more frequently and to toy around with some injures\promotions and still learn the game.  The rules look more than two players oriented and it looks like with more than one game per week in mind. So I started to doubt if the system would work if we're intended to have 4-5 games total. Maybe it's better to take previous simplier system which was published in Chronicles 5? If someone could advice on this it would be great.

 

As to keep the thread on topic, since the start of the campaign is meant for the 25SS crews, it still be Barbaros vs. Samael. However I will consider pretty hard, maybe it's worth to loose an activation and take a mature nephilim instead of two young, at least I would have an option to ambush Hopkings while waiting to acuire Lillith into my crew after a game or two/

[Nical]

Mature will be very useful. But Mature is fragile for his cost, Never forget it. It means You must think about how you protect mature from opponents.  

For Example, I think Barbaros's Challenge can use to protect him. 

[Vic_bull]

Nice idea, thanks! SInce the rules are calling for the 35SS model arsenal in the begining of the campaign I would expect him to take Hopkins and 5 stalkers. Or Hopkins, Lone Marshall and 3 stalkers. To prevent the situatin where the stalkers give the presents in form of burning condition and Samael standing in the center as a fortified turret, It might be worth a try to shut him up right from the start and the pair Mature\Barbaros looks to be up to that while 3 Tots would run the errants. Horror duel + Challenge should give nice defencive result until Hopkins is dead.Especially when most of his models will rely on Sh  and trigger horror duel at least to suck the cards from his hand. I'm only torn between  the upgrades, Nexus of Power to help Barboros keep shape or Fears Given Form to have him some serious punch?

[Nical]

Fears given form is double-edged sword because It deal damage to your other models, too. Keep in mind. 

Nexus of Power is not bad for survival. But It has rewritten by errata, so you must check http://wyrd-games.net/community/files/download/22-malifaux-card-updates/

And I have a question, do you read Crossroads? I think there are some upgrades for you in the book. For Example, Mimic's blessing is good for survival.

Before upgraded model activates, Opponent's Attack Action by Charge & Sh Action's Attack Flips against him get  . 

[Vic_bull]

Woa! Kinda unexpected! The errata makes Nexus of Power to cure only 1 wound and I would never have read that any model including friendly which activates in engagement range must pass a duel without your help in Fears given form. Thanks. No, no Crossroads yet. It was only released in digital and I'm yet to buy it, however I have the flie with the stats and upgrades for the wave 2. Mimic's blessing sure has it ways, one more to consider and make the choice harder, especially when both previous updates has showed its weaknesses.

[Nical]

And you may use Fear givens form's 'friendly damage' to finish someone. Because Fear given form deal damage to your model, so it make Black Blood  .

This trick is Pseudo-Black Blood Pustule, so If you can use real BBP, you don't need to use this trick. 

 

Additionally, Barbaros's Challenge works against opponent's all actions. So opponent's actions targeted his/her other models need to pass Wp Duals, too.

[Vic_bull]

You know, it's a bit too much to suffer 3 dmg to make 1. There is only slight possibility to use it and the enemy model have to be exeptionaly tough. But still, interesting.

[Nical]

You know, it's a bit too much to suffer 3 dmg to make 1. There is only slight possibility to use it and the enemy model have to be exeptionaly tough. But still, interesting.

 

So I say "may" and "Finish". 3 wounds may take to kill opponent's essential model, but very expensive as you say.    

[Vic_bull]

Sorry for the simple question but I just noticed. The ranage of Barbaros   attacks is 2". The range for the Samael's tools of trade  1". I read clear in the manual that if I attack Samael from 2" both models would be engaged. But does it mean he can use his tools of the trade  from 2" too?

[Dirial]

Sorry for the simple question but I just noticed. The ranage of Barbaros   attacks is 2". The range for the Samael's tools of trade  1". I read clear in the manual that if I attack Samael from 2" both models would be engaged. But does it mean he can use his tools of the trade  from 2" too?

 

No. He still needs to be in range for an attack.

[Vic_bull]

I was afraid to hear something different! Thanks.

[thegoatgod_pan]

I just played through a little campaign with Barbaros as my leader and the real lynchpin model for him is the Black Blood Shaman.

 

The shaman's main synergy just works with Barbie's Challenge, so long as you save a spade for the right trigger. E.g. Barbaros starts the turns, runs into the enemy, either charging or just moving and then challenges. If you make sure to enforce the Challenge aura with an iron fist, he ought to take a few wounds but keep your nephilim safe, your enemy busy and the enemy hand depleted.

 

The shaman activates last and black blood pustules Barbaros: if you saved a spade, this is where you heal him up too.  If you placed Barbaros right, this should greatly weaken everyone around him with the irresistible black blood damage.

 

The shaman also turns tots into mobile explosives and matures them when the time is right. 

 

Barbaros virtually never survived the games, so I kept around a low card to keep him from injuries and made sure to take "frame for murder" on him a lot. 

[Vic_bull]

Sounds like a good plan. Thanks. I'll check it out. My main concern now is to have someone to play. My friend has kinda lost some of his interest. I just hope temporarily.

[oreaper]

Sorry to hear your friend is losing interest, what worked for me is to introduce the friend to the community at large there is a surprising amount of support here and i believe it really hepls foster excitement beyond the fantastic aestitic and smooth mechanic of the game