Leveticus timing?

[SpiralngCadavr]

So, this came up last game, and I want to check this after reading through the rules and trying to make sense of it. I'll give the specific example, since, well, I have it.

 

The last 6ss model is in play near a hollow waif. The 6ss model is about to die of poison, and Leveticus is buried.

 

Poison clearly takes effect during the Upkeep phase. Is this also when Eternal Shackles takes effect? Is an event which one may choose to take the same as an effect which expires, regarding timing? Is "the end of the turn" identical to "the upkeep phase" except when resolving VP/encounter stuff?

 

The rules also only state that it's the player's choice which order to end (again, confusing, since Shackles isn't ending) effects when it would affect the outcome in reference to a single model ("model's owning player", p35, upkeep paragraph 2), rather than a set of models ("models'... "), so is it still the Leveticus player's choice (i.e. the rules should state "models' owning player")?

 

So... would the Leveticus player get to choose the order? If not, which order would things be resolved in?

[The Godlyness]

Levy player chooses order for all effects and abilities for his models.

[Tuttleboy]

As stated, both are controlled by Leve. Leve chooses order.

[SpiralngCadavr]

Okay, thanks. Well, we played it wrong (twice in the game, couldn't decipher so ruled), though I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have horribly affected the game, mostly just changed a couple attacks where poisoned minis were ignored in favor of pot-shots elsewhere. I'm positive one wouldn't have changed the outcome; the other would have been unlikely... good to know what's right, though.

[Jackfraser]

Maybe I'm being dense but that's not how I read it. Levy's (well the hollow waifs) ability says the end of the turn not the upkeep stage. So surely the end of the turn would be after the upkeep stage had been fully resolved and finished. So the order of resolution wouldn't actually effect here as they technically end at different times?

May have the wrong end of the stick but that's how I've read it

[The Godlyness]

Upkeep

The Upkeep Step is where the end of the Turn bookkeeping takes place. Effects that do not list a specific duration, or which end at the end of the Turn, end during the Upkeep Step.

In the unlikely event that the order in which multiple effects ending would affect the outcome, then the affected model's owning player determines the order in which they are resolved. If models from both players are affected, the First Player's models will resolve their effects first.

Page 35 big book.

[SpiralngCadavr]

Jack, yeah, it's a somewhat unclear section (since for some reason "end of the turn " is basically synonymous with "upkeep phase" in many but not all circumstances, and the exceptions covered seem a little overly specific), but I expect that's the intent. It isn't ideal, but if everyone's in agreement, then it's fine by me...